City
Morning Brew: Green Bin Follow-up, Halton Parents Awakened at 5 a.m., Stabbing at Dufferin Station, If You Were Mayor, AGCO and LCBO Rules
Photo: "honest ed's" by laurie.mcgregor, member of the blogTO Flickr pool.
What's happening in the GTA (and sometimes beyond):
If you're the average resident of Toronto and you file a complaint to the City when you observe garbage collectors tossing green bin waste in with grey bin garbage, do you see immediate corrective measures taken, and get a personal follow up visit from city staff? Probably not. But if you're a journalist for a national newspaper... you do.
Some 25,000 parents in Halton got an unexpected phone call from the school board - at 5 a.m. on Saturday morning! A glitch with their high-tech auto-dialing information dissemination system led to the board mistakenly waking up parents to inform them that it was a snow day. So much for getting that precious weekend beauty sleep, eh? Oops.
Police in the Jane & Finch area are looking for a 15-year old babysitter and her 4-year old nephew after the two went missing last night. Authorities want the teen to know that she's "not in trouble" and that she should reveal her location. If she's not in trouble, will she be getting the babysitting gig next weekend?
Details are sketchy, but what we do know is that a man was stabbed in the neck at Dufferin Station yesterday evening, TTC subway train service was halted to allow for police to investigate, and that a male suspect was being sought.
The National Post launched an interesting series this weekend, called "If I Were Mayor." First up were CBC's George Stomboulopoulos of The Hour, and Annie Kidder, Executive director of People for Education. Who would you like to see appear in this series? I'd love to see what Stephen Harper would do. Or what Peter Griffin sees as good for Toronto.
Just months after getting into Ontario's monopoly-controlled alcoholic beverages market (a huge feat in and of itself), Boxer Beer is now under fire from the AGCO because it's name is problematic. And in a related story, the LCBO is looking to tighten regulations on church wine because the potential for abuses exists under current rules. Are these government bodies too strict?
And here's what blogTO was up to this weekend:
- Briony profiled Covet + Crave, a fashion retailer that recently changed locations to Queen Street, where it has teamed with former resident Brazen Hussy.
- Tim reminded us that online Toronto arts talk show Late Nate in the Bedroom is still going strong.
- Matthew reviewed the Julie Fader and Daniel Romano show at the El Mocambo - a great show that felt like a series of jam sessions.
- Kelly picked the brain of mayoral hopeful Rocci Rossi, on all things Toronto and his visions for our future.
- Paula dined in the dark at O.NOIR and while she couldn't show us the food, she did fill us in on the tastes and challenges involved in the experience.
Discussion
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Two people are missing.
BlogTO cracks jokes about it.
Classy.
My friend who lives in Oakville: "Since it is a snow day that's why we are at Glen Eden today." and it was a clear sunshine outside.
For those who are not aware, Glen Eden is a ski hill in Milton, which is in the Halton Region.
And yes, the whole concept of alcohol sales should go to private companies, not a single owner. The whole industry should be allowed proper business, not this government crap. And Brewers Retail shut down and those preferential illegal treatment taken away from the large foreign brewers that own it.
Huh?
Some of the things I find...over the top.
Homemade wine can only be legally served at religious events, such as weddings. And only if the person who made the wine was also attending the wedding.
So, if I, being an atheist had homemade wine at a non-religious wedding, I would be breaking the law. Additionally if a relative made wine for the wedding, but was unable to attend, that would also be illegal.
Also illegal would be if that providing the homemade wine was not a relative. So if my best man made wine, I would be unable to serve it at the event.
Not included in religious events are wedding anniversaries. It is illegal to serve homemade wine at one of these events.
It is also illegal to have a party or event where people pay for the alcohol served without getting a permit. A kegger for example where people usually give a few bucks to attend would be illegal. You can only serve alcohol without a permit if you do it free of charge. Technically, liquour runs are also illegal. If you were going to the LCBO to buy alcohol for a party and someone gave you $30 to pick up a bottle of vodka while you were there, that would also be against the law.
And lets say do you get a permit. Then serve wine that was lets say bought while you were on vacation in Paris....Also illegal.
Downside: selection is shit and they have obnoxiously high listing costs for the little guys
It's the Wal-Mart of liquor stores, folks. Lots of stuff, yes, but what the LCBO decides to sell barely scratches the surface of what's really out there. And, as has been noted, it's very expensive.
If this is one of their top selling points, the beer can't be very good.
1) Glass is heavy as shit. Long neck bottles also mean a lot of air is shipped with bottles. The amount of carbon produced when shipping glass bottles over aluminum is significant.
2) Bottles are used 12-15 times before they get recycled. And when I say recycled, I don't mean get turned back into beer bottles. It is more likely that they use virgin glass with only a small portion of recycled glass in bottle production. Recycled beer bottles are likely only used for things like sandpaper and other industrial uses. Although, not that this is a huge loss because recycling hosuehold glass requires more energy than making new glass anyways.
3) Regardless, making or recycling glass requires a HUGE amount of energy (and therefore carbon). There are a lot of serious chemicals involved and a lot of pollution created. Aluminum on the other hand, while requiring a huge amount of energy in its initial creation is ridiculously recyclable. Only a tiny fraction of the initial energy is required to take a used can and turn it into a new can, and more important, the aluminum doesn't lose its strength no matter how many times you melt it back down.
4) This is also assuming washing bottles takes an energy output of zero. It does not. You have to constantly ship these heavy, airfilled bottles everytime they need to be cleaned and refilled. The cleaning requires energy (carbon) and the shipping requires significant energy. Aluminum on the other hand can be crushed and shipped with very little wasted space (therefore much less energy required to move the equivilant amount of containers)
So is the energy saved by reusing bottles 12-15 times more than what is wasted in glass production, recycling, shipping, etc?
Doubtful. If anything, recycled aluminum and reused glass are about the same in terms of their carbon footprint.
Now. If Ontario had stayed switched over to the stubby, we'd have a much better argument for glass since there would be much less waste and less glass required per bottle (and much less breakage so you get more reuses out of each bottle). But hey, the big beer companies wanted long neck bottles for marketing purposes, so who are we to argue?
...what the LCBO decides to sell barely scratches the surface of what's really out there.
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True, but that's because super excellent Joe Blow Winery in Uruguay or Chile can't afford to export their wine up here. It's not the LCBO's fault they can't.
I highly doubt it.
That said, I'm all for bottles.
<blockquote>The LCBO is one of the largest single purchasers of beverage alcohol in the world and one of the largest retailers, buying wines, spirits and beers from 77 countries around the world for Ontario consumers and licensees. A total of 22,000 products are available: 3,700 brands regularly on offer, 6,700 through VINTAGES, LCBO's fine wines and premium spirits unit, and some 11,800 through LCBO's Private Ordering and Consignment programs.</blockquote>
http://www.lcbo.com/aboutlcbo/media_centre/faq.shtml
They choose what they feel is the best. You can order almost anything through them if you want something else. They have excellent selection (I've lived in several provinces) and the rest of Canada DOES NOT compare to the LCBO at all, generally speaking.
Simply seems to be a case where people just want to bitch and complain without thinking of the ramifications of their decisions or how bad it might get if we got rid of the LCBO.
So a stubby, with a shape closer to that of a cube/sphere will have a smaller surface area than an elongated shape, despite having the same volume.
Additionally, the stubby has a lower centre of gravity meaning they won't tip over as easily and don't need to compensate for that stability weakness with extra glass.
This is all theory though. A stubby doesn't require as much glass, but how much producers actually use is a different story. It's quite likely that current stubbies use exactly the same amount of glass due to manufacturing limitations if produced in the same factory as long neck bottles (ie, using the same manufacturing equipment with a different bottle mold. But they don't -have- to be.
The other issue not previously mentioned is the ability to stack cases. The cardboard boxes beer comes in isn't there for structural strength. It is only there to keep the bottles together in one spot. The bottles themselves are the ones taking the full brunt of the weight of any cases stacked on top.
A case of cans can support a ridiculous amount of weight. You can take a pallet of cans and stack them three high without any damage to the ones on the very bottom. Try that with long neck bottles. Granted, long neck bottles can probably be stacked high enough to fill a tractor trailer vertically, so transportation wise, its not really an issue, but this adds to the carbon footprint when it comes to warehouse storage.
<blockquote>LCBO’s Private Ordering program can order case lots from anywhere in the world as long as the supplier will ship it to the LCBO. Please phone 1-800-668-5144, or in Toronto, 416 864-6739.</blockquote>
http://www.lcbo.ca/aboutlcbo/media_centre/faq.shtml
As an example of the LCBO's stupidity, I give you several examples:
Example #1: the largest and best selection of booze in the largest City in Canada is in an industrial wasteland on Queens Quay E.
Example #2: the only LCBO in the Financial District, home to tens of thousands of the most highly paid employees in the country, is a tiny outlet with a mediocre and shallow selection in First Canadian Place. It closes at 6 and isn't open on weekends. The only other location in the Financial District is at Union Station, offering an even worse selection and only slightly better hours.
Example #3: If Joe Bartender finds a unique beer in Belgium that is not carried by the LCBO and wants to serve it in his bar in Ontario, he has to pay to have it tested by the LCBO. Testing costs thousands. Consequently, Joe does not import the beer. What justification does the LCBO have to lab test beers that are ok for sale in places like Belgium? Are we worried for the safety of Belgian beers? It makes no sense.
Example #4: The canard frequently trotted out by the LCBO is that they are the single largest purchaser of alcohol in the world. So what? Do Ontarians get a volume discount on our booze? No sir. We have some of the highest booze prices in all of Canada and a hell of a lot higher than south of the border.
Example #5: The LCBO overpays its unionized staff to do mostly menial work (see also TTC). I'm all for a living wage, but I don't think we should be devaluing education and personal development by excessively paying people who do little more than stack bottles and take cash.
So you have no factual data, just your observations? And you're calling me an idiot? that's jokes!
Canada has 1/3 the successful breweries per capita than the U.S.?
Maybe cause our brewers here are crap. If you're any indication of the industry, then surely this is the case. And I don't need data, this is my experience with a brewer in Canada (you).
See what I just did there?
Canadian beer, sucks. Period. Only an idiot would involve themselves with a non-european brewery.
..."as long as the supplier will ship it to the LCBO"
Actually, after your last post, it shows you are a child. You know nothing about anything you talk about. Canadian brewers have excellent products that are stifled by the LCBO. The wine industry in Ontario had to take them to court to get what they wanted. How is THAT for factual data? Idiot. Go back to Bulgaria.
Hrmm... Well I guess I know a bit more than you, hey idiot?
Canadian brewers do NOT have excellent products, it's swill. I only drink beer under the purity law of 1516.
"Lots of products the LCBO denies. You "Application" isn't an application if they accept everything."
a) calm down
b) learn to spell
c) learn to read, I'll s-p-e-l-l it out for you (again)
"...as long as the supplier will ship it to the LCBO"
Let's examine this Private Ordering program you tout:
I find some shiraz I like in Argentina. It's a nice shiraz that sells for $20/bottle at the winery in Mendoza. $240/case. It's not available here.
To get it to Ontario through the LCBO's Private Ordering program, I need to apply to the LCBO, they will "source" it for me which will take, according to their web site, about six months.
The LCBO web site informs me that "Typically the final cost per bottle of the product will be approximately three to four times higher than the retail price in the country of origin after application of exchange rates, LCBO mark up, freight, taxes and duty." In addition, I will have to pay $175 to have the product tested. So, we're looking at about $1200 and six months for a case of wine that would cost me about $240 in Argentina.
So, to say that the Private Ordering system is a comparable alternative to purchasing wine in the LCBO is not only incorrect, it's ludicrous.
That doesn't explain why it's near impossible to get a BC wine in the LCBO. You should travel, mi amigo.
http://www.dirtypotsandpans.com/about/keven
2nd point: So you're not refuting my point than? Let me repeat it for you:
...as long as the supplier will ship it to the LCBO
Being poor is an entirely different complaint than availability of importing wine... Sorry can't help you with that one...
3rd point:
"So, to say that the Private Ordering system is a comparable alternative to purchasing wine in the LCBO is not only incorrect, it's ludicrous."
Please show me where I made this claim?
Canadian beer, sucks. Period. Only an idiot would involve themselves with a non-european brewery.
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You should probably stop commenting since your statement proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you know nothing whatsoever about beer. Go back to your red bull and vodka, child.
mr. hate, not keven and rico are all the same person BTW. This much is obvious.
"How is what they say any more credible than what Rico says?"
You take what people say for face-value on the internet? He's a brewer or an alcoholic living in his mum's basement... You don't know, I don't know, nobody knows. Post some links up, post some data to back up his claim, otherwise he's just some idiot with an opinion on the internet.
BTW, I have a GREAT piece of land to sell you in Florida, interested? I'm actually not a web developer but rather a real-estate mogul who is worth millions and I can't get my money out of the country, but if you send me 10,000 dollars you can have untold...
yea... exactly...
I only drink Bavarian beer. I mean, what the hell would Bavarians know about beer? :P
mr. hate, not keven and rico are all the same person BTW. This much is obvious.
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1
I am not Rico. I am not Not Keven. I skip over Rico's posts once he has made more than 6 of them. That you cannot tell the complete difference in writing styles of 3 different people speaks volumes about your powers of observation.
2
The stupidity of your statement that Canadian beer sucks is not amplified nor diminished by your proud claim that you only drink Bavarian beer. You statement remains as wonderfully stupid as ever.
Hi RICO!!!! :)
Canadian beers are crap? Not the craft brewing industry. I do agree that Ontario craft brewers are behind their counterparts in the states.
Would privatization improve selection and lower prices? It should, yes. I think warehousing and distribution of wine and imported beer is controlled by a single entity, which might be a factor for Alberta's pricing and lack of selection. Still, there are apparently stores in Edmonton with a good selection of beer and wine (e.g., Sherbrooke Liquor). Considering the GTA's population, I think it could support a number of stores with very good selections of beer and wine.
You have repeatedly asserted that getting rid of the LCBO would lead to worse selection. You used Wal-Mart as a supporting illustration that no matter how large an entity is, no entity could possibly provide access to all possible booze selections available in the world. Your argument is fallacious and based on anecdote. You also misunderstand the point about Wal-Mart. Let me explain.
Wal-Mart does not have a larger selection of goods than the industry segment in which it operates. Thankfully, unlike the LCBO, Wal-Mart is not a monopoly. If you want clothes or electronics or food that Wal-Mart does not sell, you can go to Futureshop, Champagne and Cupcakes or Loblaws (or any of ten thousand other options).
Wal-Mart makes money by selling lots of the same widget at a small profit margin per widget. Wal-Mart does not make money by selling lots of different kinds of the same type of widget. You are conflating the size of Wal-Mart with the diversity of its inventory. You do this with the LCBO as well, which is why you copied and pasted the bit about how the LCBO is the largest purchaser of booze in the world. The reason the LCBO is the largest purchaser of booze in the world, is because it is a monopoly, not because it has the largest selection of products. The fact that the LCBO is the largest purchaser of booze in the world is almost entirely irrelevant to the discussion of the size of the booze selection at the LCBO.
The more red tape, the less freedom in the market. The LCBO is the mother of all red tape. It's a simple point. Get rid of the LCBO and selection in some markets in Ontario, i.e. Toronto, will almost certainly improve. I won't make the claim across the board in Ontario, but let us decide and not some overpaid product manager telling us what we can and cannot drink.
Facts? See page 68 of this publically available LCBO vintages pdf document:
www.lcbotrade.com/pdf/Vintages%20Trade%20Day%20Presentation%20April%202009.pdf
In just 2008 alone over 40000 wines were submitted to the LCBO for their consideration for sale in Vintages. Only 5000 (or 1 in 8) were tasted by the LCBO and only 2000 (or 1 in 20) were picked up and sold by the LCBO.
I don't know about you but I know that I'd rather have the freedom to choose what I want to drink and not have some panel of experts, whose opinions are skewed by snobbery and Robert Parker and the need to sell bigger quantities choose for me.
I'd love to know which brewer Rico is associated with so I could launch a complaint or at the very least start a boycott of his product. Calling potential consumers idiots, is probably a good indicator of his reason for failure.
I still stand by my statement that I can purchase wine from the LCBO if it's not in stock. I have a wine cellar and I have done this on many occasions. Yes it costs ALOT more, but it's still actually cheaper than importing directly from the vineyard (believe it or not) unless it's Canadian or American. I've never been "denied" a brand or have had to pay for "tasting" for any cases I've ordered. Either I'm lucky or peeps like Rico are blowing something totally out of proportion.
If anything there are several private great wine agents in the city you can get into contact with if the LCBO can't get it.
Also, I really hate how the LCBO has obnoxious security guards. Yea, I wear a long black coat in winter and like to read wine bottle labels. Stop stalking me like I'm a fucking criminal!
Instead of getting all mad like you three stooges, I laugh, have fun, listen to the popping of blood vessels over the pipes.
If you've ever been to an LCBO in Niagara-on-the-Lake you'd be pleasantly surprised by their selection of local wine, JUST like in Cali.
otherwise, publish the name of the complainant[s] or STFU, AGCO.
Is the AGCO a church group of sorts? Because they remind me of a carpenter, every nail needs a hammer.....
Try buying the Belgian Abbey style ale from Quebec, Delerium Tremens in Ontario — you won't find it, because of the name.
WTF in Puritan hell century are we living in? Thank you AGCO spokesman Lisa Murray for your bullshit confirmation regarding an 'investigation' — and publicizing your continued condescension, treating adults like children.
Must be great doing business in Ontario with watchdogs like yourself at AGCO.
How many souls saved to date?
Speaking of which, the LCBO states the Church is poisoning us. Indeed, with untested wines. LOL.
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<i>They choose what they feel is the best.</i>—keven [1:16]
NO, the LCBO demands the winery be able to deliver a high number of bottles. They won't bother with anyone not able to crank it out.
YOU are a sheeple believing what the LCBO tells you [on their website or otherwise]. Now take a seat and STFU. You Don't know what you're talking about, jr.
"NO, the LCBO demands the winery be able to deliver a high number of bottles. They won't bother with anyone not able to crank it out."
It's called business, not charity. You have no idea what you're talking about. Now go make some beer in your basement.
I want some booze, I go to the LC, and I purchase some booze.
There is more there than I could ever want.
If you think the problem with our society is that we lack the ability to buy $3 bottles of Old E at 7/11, well, then, not much is going to sway your opinion.
This is also the problem Ontario would continue to face if privatizing wasn't done right. And I think we are being a little cynical if we think they'll do it right.
-The LCBO can't exist while other companies are allowed to sell liquor. They would have too great an advantage for it to be legal.
-Selling off the entire LCBO chain to another company would result in the same scenario above as American supermarkets as one chain would own a massive number of stores. There is also no way the government would get the proper value of the LCBO in a sale. Nobody would be willing to shell out the amount of money that the LCBO is worth.
-Splitting up the LCBO during a sale. 1/3rd of stores to one company, 1/3rd to another, etc. This would mean massive re-branding by all parties and enormous costs involved. There is no way that anyone would be allowed to keep the LCBO brand in this situation. The cost would be enormous and that cost would be reflected on how much it costs you to buy a bottle of wine. I also don't think you'd be able to split up the LCBO enough to avoid the situation above.
-Selling off sections of the LCBO could work...maybe. If the LCBO were to get out of the wine business or beer business and allow 3rd parties to open up shop and perhaps sell off Vintages (a much smaller brand that would be easier to sell). Then maybe, -maybe- it could work.
-Privatizing the LCBO (with either of the first two methods above) and allowing other stores to open: Small stores with great variety would get destroyed. The LCBO's chains holds an enormous advantage. The only stores that would be able to stay afloat would be supermarkets and Walmarts with the purchasing power to be able to compete. Then you still have the problem of lack of variety.
Suffice to say, I don't think this issue is as simple as everyone likes to think it is. There are about 999,999 ways to do this wrong and maybe 1 way to do it right and you all have an awful lot of faith in the government to find that 1 way of doing it right, despite simultaneously blasting them for mismanaging the LCBO in the first place.