Saturday, May 26, 2012Mostly Cloudy 22°C
City

Is Jaywalking to Blame for Pedestrian Fatalities?

Posted by Derek Flack / January 28, 2010

John Street TorontoThe discussion surrounding pedestrian fatalities, street crossing bylaws, and the car-friendly design of our city continues to rage on unabated. Despite interludes provided by sleeping TTC fare collectors and Adam Giambrone party invitations, the cold reality that something disturbing is happening on our streets clearly remains at the forefront of the city's collective consciousness.

The official response, however, has been less than reassuring. Toronto police were out in full force yesterday, ticketing those deemed to be jaywalking at a number of downtown intersections. Does such a strategy have any hope of effectively reducing the number of pedestrians involved in motor vehicle accidents?

I doubt it.

Part of the problem stems from the fact that the term "jaywalking" is widely misunderstood. In fact, as Spacing contributor Dylan Reid pointed out earlier today, even some of the folks over at the Toronto Star aren't really sure what type of behaviour the term describes.

The paper's lead article yesterday, as Reid points out, completely misses the mark in its determination to label all mid-block crossing as jaywalking. While we may casually refer to it this way, the Highway Traffic Act stipulates that the vast majority of such crossings aren't illegal.

So what is illegal? Well, when one wades through the legal-speak, there are a number of pedestrian activities that break the law, but three in particular stick out: crossing an intersection at a red or amber light (and when the sign reads "don't walk"), crossing a road adjacent to a crosswalk (i.e. choosing not to use a nearby crosswalk), and not yielding to oncoming traffic when crossing mid-block.

Given this more stringent definition, yesterday's ticketing blitz appears as less of a self-described "wake up call" and more of public relations move. Although the officers were giving out tickets at intersections where the law was in fact being broken, I seriously question whether residents of this city chronically disobey traffic lights.

Quite the contrary, each time I return from a visit to New York, I'm astonished at how well behaved we all are, and I have to fight the urge to cross at virtually every red light I encounter. This is anecdotal evidence to be sure, but few of the deaths this month have been the result of pedestrians jaywalking at intersections with traffic controls.

Sure, one could say that anytime a pedestrian is killed crossing mid-block they must not have observed vehicular traffic's right of way. But such circular reasoning fails to acknowledge the myriad factors that contribute to such tragic accidents.

Was the driver speeding? Did he/she suddenly change lanes? Did he/she make an unsafe turn?

Scramble CrossingThe point isn't to shift the fault squarely onto the shoulders of drivers. There are, no doubt, countless reasons why pedestrians and drivers are at fault in accidents of this nature. But, aside from Parkdale-High Park Councillor Bill Saundercook's call for city-wide speed limit reductions, those suggesting the need to to take a more thoroughgoing approach to this problem have largely been a small group of journalists.

The Star's Christopher Hume, for instance, has written a series of articles outlining why the recent deaths can, in part, be attributed to the post WW II paradigm shift that witnessed city-building philosophies privilege the convenience of drivers over the safety of pedestrians.

When it comes to specific solutions, Hume is unfortunately less helpful. His last two articles have mentioned the Dutch concept of the woonerf, or "naked street," which through the omission of traffic signs (right of way, speed limits, etc.) force both drivers and pedestrians alike to pay more attention. But even Hume himself recognizes the impossibility of such an experiment making a major difference in Toronto.

In fact, the thing that's so frustrating about this increase in pedestrian fatalities is that there is no obvious way to address the problem in a surefire manner. It's not even possible to know for certain if the confluence of accidents isn't mere coincidence, and that the numbers won't drop off in the weeks to come.

It is, however, a good bet that a ticketing spree is not an effective strategy -- especially one undertaken in an area in which there have been no (recent) fatalities. Instead of directing attention to band-aid solutions that accomplish little more than the optics of "doing something." Perhaps it's time for the City to revisit the data from the 2007 Pedestrian Collision Study (see bottom of page), an in-depth analysis of accidents involving pedestrians in 2002 and 2003.

As the study plainly states, "enforcement of traffic laws has limited effectiveness in collision prevention. Generally, when there is an enforcement safety campaign, the initial compliance rate can be very positive. Unfortunately, once the enforcement campaign has ended, the compliance rate begins to revert back to the pre-enforcement conditions."

Instead of enforcement alone, the authors of the study recommend that this be paired with a combination of infrastructure improvements and educational initiatives. Some of the infrastructure built in conjunction with the 2007 study included the construction of new sidewalks, the installation of audible pedestrian signals and countdown signals at traffic control intersections, and improvements to pedestrian crosswalks.

These are all nice additions to help keep pedestrians safe, but none are really aimed at so-called jaywalkers. Moreover, they're all quite conservative.

Should this disturbing trend continue, more aggressive measures will need to be taken. Along with reduced speed limits on certain city streets, some have proposed that the width of streets be narrowed -- a step that would surely enrage drivers and cyclists alike.

But perhaps that's the problem in a nutshell. The city is a mixed-use space that is perpetually contested by its various groups -- the driver, the pedestrian, and the cyclist. And recent events would indicate that it's impossible to keep all three safe and happy.

Or is such a statement altogether too defeatist? How would you address the problem?

Lead photo by Bryson Gilbert, second by Roger Cullman.

Discussion

50 Comments

matts / January 28, 2010 at 05:29 pm
user-pic
Why would you try to answer this question through a survey? This will get you opinions not data. I would imagine data on accidents is available and can tell us definitively what factors contributed to them (alcohol, nighttime, jaywalking, speed, etc); run some basic statistical analysis, look at frequencies, and there's your answer. Why second guess this???
Derek / January 28, 2010 at 05:40 pm
user-pic
I've linked to the last major study, which interprets data from 2002 and 2003. Unfortunately that doesn't help much with the recent fatalities. Has much changed since then? I'm not sure. But as you suggest, the point isn't to answer the question definitively, but rather to gauge what readers think is the problem.
David / January 28, 2010 at 05:47 pm
user-pic
Matts is correct. I'm sure there is data on every pedestrian fatality in Toronto and probably also those involving serious injury. An analysis of these data would surely give an idea of the causes of these events and possibly some actions to remove the causative factors.
TokyoTuds / January 28, 2010 at 05:55 pm
user-pic
Let me restate my position in a different way. My own bias is pedestrian friendly, but police should fine pedestrians who:

1) Cross on a Don't Walk or a Red Signal;
2) Begin crossing when the Don't Walk signal has started flashing;
3) Cross outside the marked area even on a Walk or Green Signal; and,
4) Fail to yield to traffic when crossing anywhere mid-block.

Anyone who does the above and gets hit and injured or killed should have known better. And in any case, ALWAYS look Left, Right & Left before crossing even when you clearly have the right-of-way. Period.

Fining people in this way is fully supported by the Highway Traffic Act and Toronto By-Laws. People, take responsibility for your own safety! On this topic, forget about vehicles for a moment, wipe the slate clean and be good pedestrians.
Ron Salzer / January 28, 2010 at 06:05 pm
user-pic
@Matts, @David

It's actually not so simple because the data doesn't use the terminology "jaywalking" and because the term has multiple definitions. In the Pedestrian Collision Study of 07, 14% of fatalities occurred when a pedestrian was crossing at an intersection without right of way and the vehicle was going straight. That seems like an answer, but it fails to tells us about other situations. For example, the study tracks stats on mid-block collisions, but doesn't specify who had the right of way. In other words, your faith in the ability of statistical evidence is on the naive side. And remember this: the pedestrian is dead, so he can't tell you if the driver did something idiotic.
xyz / January 28, 2010 at 06:40 pm
user-pic
I'm a pedestrian. My primary mode of transportation is by walking and I have been commuting this way for the past 3 years in all areas of downtown Toronto.

I completely disagree with this statement:
I seriously question whether residents of this city chronically disobey traffic lights.

I'm not blaming pedestrians for the problem. I think we should all be more aware.

I also agree that this city caters more towards cars- just look at how city councillers are hoping to get rid of some of the marathons because of road closures.
TokyoTuds / January 28, 2010 at 06:40 pm
user-pic
Ron, good point, but I just finished reading the whole report top to bottom. In the report is states that 95% of mid-block collisions the vehicle had the right-of-way, and when the pedestrian had the right-of-way was possibly too small a sample size, so in the rest of the report they address the topic simply as "mid-block" without distinguishing right-of-way. They are correct to do so, I think.
TokyoTuds / January 28, 2010 at 06:49 pm
user-pic
Another nice tidbit from the study, which is extremely comprehensive, is this:

"Annually, over 65,000 collisions occur within the city. Pedestrian/motor vehicle collisions make up approximately 3.5% of the total number of collisions. This is equal to an average of 2,300 pedestrian/motor vehicle collisions occurring yearly within the city. However, over half of the persons killed in collisions are pedestrians."

One might conclude as xyz stated that on the roads, pedestrians are very careful and compliant, since 96.5% of collisions do not involve pedestrians but rather vehicle-vehicle collisions. And further, we could cut the death toll in half by better addressing the pedestrian deaths which make up a horribly disproportionate part of fatalities.

P.S. The BlogTO link seems broken:
http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/walking/pdf/ped_collision_study-full_report.pdf
TokyoTuds / January 28, 2010 at 06:52 pm
user-pic
And finally, the city explains that people can cross the road in one of two places:

" .... pedestrians have an obligation to only enter the roadway when permitted by a traffic control device or in other locations only when it is safe to do so and is practical for drivers to yield the right-of-way. There are two basic options facing a pedestrian when crossing the roadway. They can either cross the road at an uncontrolled location or walk to the nearest location with a traffic control device and cross from there."
saltspring / January 28, 2010 at 06:55 pm
user-pic
Pedestrians need to recognize their vulnerability irrespective of perceived right-of-way. If this were Hong Kong, you wouldn't find any pedestrian challenging a car or bus for road primacy...vehicles rule. Furthermore, far too many people roam the streets completely distracted by mp3 players, cell phones, burning inner rage, alcoholic/drug fog, etc. Awareness is indeed the key here. Wake up and live when you're walking the streets.
blame technology / January 28, 2010 at 07:16 pm
user-pic
I don't think anything has changed in terms of habits and norms that people do regarding driving and being a pedestrian. I think is more on "awareness" that we should concentrate on. 10 years ago, you wouldn't see people texting away, using cellphones and listening to ipods while driving or crossing the streets. Just today after work i saw this girl texting away, she was not moving but she failed to notice that she was not actually standing on the sidewalk but about a foot out on the street.
Derek replying to a comment from TokyoTuds / January 28, 2010 at 08:16 pm
user-pic
Thanks for the note. I've fixed the link (although one now needs to scroll to the bottom of the page to see it).
hendrix / January 28, 2010 at 08:38 pm
user-pic
I ride, walk, and drive in the city. I don't think this is a major problem. You have hundreds of thousands walking around at all times of the day every day and there's a small percentage of accidents regarding those people. Of that small percentage, some are probably the drivers' fault and some are probably the pedestrians' fault. You cannot expect a big city to have perfect safety for everyone at all times.

Personally, I think people are too distracted. The government recently introduced laws in that regard (texting, phoning etc.). But pedestrians need to be more aware. Why do people feel the need to listen to music while walking in busy areas? Enjoy the sounds of the city, people! Why do people feel the need to walk and talk on the phone, often barely looking up? It's probably a product of modern society and a false sense of security. Other things can happen when you're not aware too (mugging, for example). It's like people forget what their parents told them when they were kids -- look both ways.
hendrix / January 28, 2010 at 08:39 pm
user-pic
I ride, walk, and drive in the city. I don't think this is a major problem. You have hundreds of thousands walking around at all times of the day every day and there's a small percentage of accidents regarding those people. Of that small percentage, some are probably the drivers' fault and some are probably the pedestrians' fault. You cannot expect a big city to have perfect safety for everyone at all times.

Personally, I think people are too distracted. The government recently introduced laws in that regard (texting, phoning etc.). But pedestrians need to be more aware. Why do people feel the need to listen to music while walking in busy areas? Enjoy the sounds of the city, people! Why do people feel the need to walk and talk on the phone, often barely looking up? It's probably a product of modern society and a false sense of security. Other things can happen when you're not aware too (mugging, for example). It's like people forget what their parents told them when they were kids -- look both ways.
Crushed / January 28, 2010 at 08:55 pm
user-pic
Most of the recent deaths have been pedestrians crushed under the real wheels of large vehicles which were turning right. This is a major cause of pedestrian death everywhere. Large vehicle, turning right, driver cannot see pedestrian stepping off the curb, who gets mauled under the rear wheels of the vehicle.

Pedestrians: stay the hell away from large vehicles turning near you. Stand BACK.

TheVok / January 28, 2010 at 09:20 pm
user-pic
Others have pointed this out elsewhere, but one measure that could help at major intersections (and even minor ones) would be, as in many other cities, to give drivers their own time to move through and pedestrians their own time to move through ... NOT simultaneously as is currently the case (with the notable exception of our new scramble intersections).

The law says I can't start walking across an intersection unless there's that little white person on the signal, but geez, how much time is that?! A mere moment in the entire cycle. Most of the time, the red hand is flashing, even when there's a ridiculous amount of time to cross ... in some cases, well over 20 seconds.

Drivers, by comparison, are certainly favoured in terms of when signals beckon them to cross an intersection. When I'm driving I may get an advanced green, an advanced left turn green, a very long standard green ... and I'm even allowed to enter on a yellow if I was already moving!
Joel / January 28, 2010 at 09:37 pm
user-pic
It strikes me that many of the recent accidents occurred at the intersection of wide, suburban style arterials. I believe that these roads are a great danger to pedestrians, especially given the fact that they aren't heavily used by pedestrians to begin with (therefore driver awareness declines). These roads are six lanes wide, plus they widen at intersections, often adding two more lanes for right and left turns. This is wayyy too wide to safely cross.

So, you're left with two design options when it comes to these roads: either you narrow the road to a more acceptable width (5 lanes seems a good maximum) or you physically separate the pedestrian crossing. Otherwise, these intersections, with wide lanes, car turning priority, and wide open surrounding spaces, essentially remain highways without controlled access.
ambrose replying to a comment from TokyoTuds / January 28, 2010 at 10:55 pm
user-pic
That's why I have always said that the way the countdown timers are done here in TO is wrong. Giving a countdown to red both encourages pedestrians to cross when a don't walk signal is flashing, and encourages drivers to drive into pedestrians who started crossing on green but cannot finish before it turns red.

Just a couple of hours ago I almost got hit by a POLICE car not on sirens, at an intersection with pedestrian lights, while the lights were green. It didn't even do a rolling stop. How can anyone blame pedestrians when even the police are acting like this??
DING DING / January 28, 2010 at 10:59 pm
user-pic
Pay f'ing attention when you cross the street and pay f'ing attention when you drive.

There is nothing else to say or talk about.
DING DING / January 28, 2010 at 11:01 pm
user-pic
Pay f'ing attention when you cross the street and pay f'ing attention when you drive.

There is nothing else to say or talk about.
ambrose replying to a comment from DING DING / January 28, 2010 at 11:16 pm
user-pic
Sure. It always helps to view crossing the road as dangerous.

However, you can't deny that the city is discouraging walking. Countdown to the wrong signal aside (we only want a countdown to green so that we know we don't have to cross on red!), what with having to press a button to cross the road? Makes catching buses almost impossible.
jack / January 29, 2010 at 12:00 am
user-pic
the city is using this to generate new revenue...$35 per ticket.. gave out thousands of tickets already...
TheVok / January 29, 2010 at 08:36 am
user-pic
I agree that in most cases, such accidents could be prevented by drivers and pedestrians paying more attention. But that doesn't change the fact that the infrastructure is set up in favour of the drivers. And I think that speaks to the issue of discouraging walking.
Feldwebel Wolfenstool / January 29, 2010 at 08:50 am
user-pic
One of the reasons I left T.O. was because of the all the a**holes in cars trying to mow down anyone on a motorcycle or a bicycle. Drivers in T.O. were very courteous, way back, in the '70's. Nowadays, it's just the ME FIRST, GET OUT OF MY WAY, YOU PEASANT mentality.
Randy / January 29, 2010 at 08:50 am
user-pic
The problems are 50/50, drivers and pedestrians. Although I have a licence, I don't driver, preferring to walk and cycle and use (ugh) TTC. I am appalled at how many pedestrians will stand OFF the corner on the roads, waiting to cross. Likewise, I am disgusted by the number of drivers who make right-hand turns, and never look to the right, just the left, at oncoming traffic.


Pedestrians need to respect roads, and drivers need to pay attention, and get off their bloody cellphones!


The real solution? BRING BACK PHOTO RADAR! This way, it will be much clearer who is at fault, and drivers will pay more attention if they are hit with a $500 fine for careless operation of a motor vehicle.
TokyoTuds replying to a comment from TheVok / January 29, 2010 at 08:55 am
user-pic
Hear, hear Vok ... we definitely need better pedestrian infrastructure. And I must say, pedestrian overpasses and underpasses (tunnels) is NOT what I mean. Seoul is a nightmare for this, bowing to the mighty automobile. We need EQUAL access to the public realm, and have the right to cross city streets at grade except in exceptional circumstances (like over the Lakeshore at Ontario Place).
Sean / January 29, 2010 at 08:58 am
user-pic
Pedestrians have been pushing it lately. Within one block on Tuesday, I had to apply the breaks three times to avoid hitting FIVE jaywalkers, on Bloor, east of Yonge.

I agree with a commenter earlier, that the countdown at the lights is wrong. Cars speed up and pedestrians think they're Donovan Bailey, sprinting at 3-2-1.
bill / January 29, 2010 at 09:12 am
user-pic
I drive, cycle and walk in this city. One way to make it safer for pedestrians is to make it safer for cyclists.

Safer for cyclists = more cyclists = safer for pedestrians.

As it stands this city is downright hostile to both cyclists and pedestrians.

I would not pay a jaywalking fine, just go watch outside of the courts with a camera take pics of judges etc jaywalking send to spacing ,blog to etc.
Ryan L. / January 29, 2010 at 09:18 am
user-pic
There needs to be some adjustment to the laws based on the new countdown timers. It's understandable that it is wrong to start crossing when you have a flashing red hand signal because you have no idea when the light is going to change, potentially leaving you in the middle of the intersection. However, with the timers, you know exactly how much time you have and often it is more than enough to cross the street 3 or 4 times. (I've actually seen some countdown from the 20s)

So how is it fair to say it's illegal when it is clearly still safe to walk across? They need to either 1) adjust the law so that it doesn't apply to crosswalks with timers or 2) Adjust the timers so they stay white for longer and keep the flashing red hand/timer countdown to a minimum.
nina / January 29, 2010 at 09:27 am
user-pic
I grew up in Vancouver and upon moving here I was suprised by the amount of jaywalkers. My commute to work used to consist of driving down Bloor St. to Keele. I am a good driver with a clean record and had experience driving in the city (Vancouver and LA where I had resided for an extended period of time). I found it nerve racking how many times a pedestrian would bolt out from between cars at an unmarked intersection wanting to cross. I understand the urgency in wanting to get somewhere quickly but it's take a huge risk crossing from an unmarked intersection emerging from parked cars. A distracted driver could easily hit and injure a jaywalker. I think everyone is guilty of jay walking and I believe there are intersections where jay walking just makes sense especially if you the pedestrian act in a cautious manner not bolting out into traffic. I don't think there is a solution to this situation, just a manner of everyone being more cautious and less distracted. As a driver I would never want to be put in the situation where I have hurt someone if it could of easily been prevented and as a pedestrain I don't want to risk my own life for those added few seconds crossing unsafely gives.
ambrose replying to a comment from Ryan L. / January 29, 2010 at 10:04 am
user-pic
There are always the elderly and disabled, or sick/injured people, so you can't really base the laws on how much time you are supposed to have to cross the road. Pedestrians must have right of way once they start crossing on green; otherwise it's arguably discrimination.

If the laws really change so that you can't continue crossing once the light turns red, then infrastructure must also change to reflect that. In cities where this really is the case, they have "safety islands" in the middle so that the pedestrians can wait to finish crossing. If the laws really do change the city will have to put these things up on EVERY single road in the city.

I never understood why it is countdown to red. When these timers were announced I felt so happy because I thought I now know how much time I had to wait until the light turns green. I was so disappointed when I learnt that they were countdowns to red.
mikeb replying to a comment from Randy / January 29, 2010 at 10:19 am
user-pic
Randy, Photo Radar will not make a big difference in the situations you cite. Photo Radar was used where you see speed traps--usually to record excessive speeds on straight roads. While they may decrease the likelyhood of death if a pedestrian is hit at a lower speed, the problems you cite occur at intersections. Red light cameras could be more useful and they are currently in use in Toronto. There are currently 30 cameras in the city of Toronto. http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/redlight_cameras/index.htm

I'd like to add that if you are a pedestrian on St Clair, be very careful if you intend to cross against the light. Things have changed with the Right of Way. Traffic lights now have green arrows from Yonge to Keele. U-turns are permitted at most of them. Every day this week I have stood at the corner of Yonge and St Clair watching pedestrians running against the red hand light. They cross to catch the streetcar and almost get hit by a legally uturning card. The uturners aren't driving fast enough to kill, but they still are big hulks of metal that can do serious damage.
Phuong / January 29, 2010 at 10:23 am
user-pic
This is a beautiful picture!
Warren replying to a comment from TokyoTuds / January 29, 2010 at 10:43 am
user-pic
I had to put my arm out to stop a fellow pedestrian from crossing as a car roared through a yellow/red light last year. We had the green, but I came up with something of the top of my head that I've kept in my back pockets since then,"A green light is a promise, not a guarantee"

People break promises all the time - its up to you to keep your space safe.
Laura / January 29, 2010 at 11:37 am
user-pic
I think both the pedestrians and the drivers are to blame. I've been both. There have been so many incidents where I am driving when it's dark, and suddenly a mysterious person will come crossing in the middle of the street. It's dark, and I am expected to see this person, or they are assuming that I will stop. In addition, I'm lucky if these people are actually LOOKING at the on coming car before they cross. I've seen people just crossing at red lights, and jaywalking in the street without any sort of glance at on coming cars. You take for granted that cars will stop. I also find it offensive when people jaywalk and put their hand out at me like I'm supposed to stop. I only stop because I don't want to hurt anyone and it's a headache for myself, not because you stuck your hand out.
As for drivers tho, there are so many that speed thru red/yellow lights. I'm also guilty of trying to make a right turn when pedestrians are crossing. I agree, that we are way more polite than in NYC. The cars are litterally in the intersection, and you might even have to climb over one.

I think cars should have some sort of signal in the front that tells people from the front that they are breaking, making a left/right turn. This way pedestrians and other cars can figure out what you're doing.

I found drivers these last few weeks have been pretty dumb in terms of when to switch lanes, when to cross lights, with no regard to others.

We're both at fault. Both need to smarten up
jack / January 29, 2010 at 12:54 pm
user-pic
apparently, crossing on flashing hand signal and countdown is illegal.. i didn't know that.. so i guess we now have to stand there under -20C when the hand is flashing..
ambrose replying to a comment from jack / January 29, 2010 at 01:06 pm
user-pic
Starting to cross on the flashing hand signal is illegal, and that's one of of the reason why the countdown timers should not count down to red.

On the other hand, continuing to cross on the flashing hand signal is totally legal, provided that you started crossing on green, and cars should always yield to pedestrians in such a case; and this is the other half of the reason why countdown to red is wrong.
Meh... / January 29, 2010 at 01:19 pm
user-pic
Everyone thinks every day occurences are out of the control 'cause the media outlets grab hold of it and run (for the $$$). Has this been an unusual spat of tragedy? I'd say 'yes'. We're all human - whether on foot, in a vehicle or on a bicycle - and we all make mistakes. Sometimes to our own detriment. Enough finger-pointing!
Miriam / January 29, 2010 at 02:57 pm
user-pic
Yesterday I almost got hit by a car at the University & Dundas intersection. I was just crossing the lights and this car starts honking at me? No buddy, you watch out for me, if my sign says go I go and your light says stop you stop, that's how it is. :)
Lori replying to a comment from Miriam / January 29, 2010 at 06:37 pm
user-pic
I've had similar things happen to me in Mississauga, I have the walk and cars either honk at me or try to crawl like a snail over where I am crossing.
jack / January 29, 2010 at 07:30 pm
user-pic
torontonians should learn how to walk faster, we are too slow
Joey Tavares / January 29, 2010 at 08:16 pm
user-pic
As a downtown resident, I am a pedestrian. I don't know many people in the downtown core who use their cars - it is rare. Cars are for trips uptown or the like.

Most of cars downtown come from out of town. The bedroom communities in the 905 empty out daily, into the bowels of my living space - their work space.

Also, who the hell is putting these freak drivers on the road? Speed limits? HA. Toronto has turned into Montréal, where the pedestrian comes last.

We are urban dwellers, and many of us remain steadfastly on foot, or use public transit. Out of towners should have to park their cars at the outskirts, and get on transit - clear the congestion of the primacy of the vehicle!

Why are there so many cars? I mean, one driver and four empty seats? If the TTC was running at twenty percent capacity around the clock, it would be shut down!
Miriam replying to a comment from Lori / January 29, 2010 at 08:23 pm
user-pic
Your story reminds me of what happened yesterday on the Mississauga bus actually. The bus driver turned left on the light while an old lady was crossing the road?! I was stunned because usually I find the bus drivers alright, but she just turned because she wanted to beat the oncoming car.

It's everyone's fault, we observe this everyday cars & pedestrians just have to be more cautious. We need to control our driving (I know I was a whack driver) and calm down. Especially when turning! And pedestrians have to look where they are walking, we might have the right of way but we can't just walk onto the street and expect cars to bounce off us.
Lori replying to a comment from Miriam / January 29, 2010 at 09:52 pm
user-pic
Yeah, I feel the blame should be 50/50.
TheVok replying to a comment from jack / January 31, 2010 at 03:15 pm
user-pic
With an ageing population, the idea that people will walk FASTER than now is just not gonna happen.

The traffic signals for pedestrians are a joke in this city ... how on earth are seniors expected to get across safely?!
Matt replying to a comment from Joey Tavares / February 4, 2010 at 10:18 am
user-pic
The problem is pedestrians don't have respect for cars. They rely on the fact that legally they have the right of way, and feel safe as a result of that.

That safety is unfounded, you will never win against a car, its faster heavier and less agile than a pedestrian. Once people realize this, they wont blindly walk out into cross walks or run between cars at stop lights.

Worse than pedestrians are the bike commuters... but don't get me started on those ignorant A-holes.
Joey Tavares replying to a comment from Matt / February 4, 2010 at 11:42 am
user-pic
Matt, I agree with you in many instances. Pedestrians do have the right of way, and do indeed rely on that with a deluded sense of security.

Perhaps the argument remains that respect must be engendered on both sides of the divide.

That said, I agree with you 100% about cyclists. Sometimes a road vehicle, sometimes a crosswalk denizen, always a pain in the a$$, and extremely dangerous to all other modes of transport.

TorontoDad replying to a comment from Joey Tavares / February 4, 2010 at 11:48 am
user-pic
Notice how all these pedestrian fatalities have occurred in the cold weather.

Is it possible that the presence of cyclists actually promotes more caution with both pedestrian and motorist?

Subtract the so-called a$$ cyclists from the equation, and suddenly it's mario-cart out here. Fascinating.

Joey Tavares replying to a comment from TorontoDad / February 4, 2010 at 12:11 pm
user-pic

Uhm, that's sorta funny - as if Canadians stop cycling in winter.

Been out on the street much lately???

keven replying to a comment from Matt / February 4, 2010 at 01:10 pm
user-pic
The exact same thing could be said about motorists. I as a pedestrian expect a car to LOOK before BLINDLY making a turn.

Also, the crosswalk thing kills me. If you are unable to see 4 HUGE flashing lights on a sign that GLOWS IN THE DARK. You dont deserve to have a license.

I was almost hit last week by a car PASSING another car stopped at a crosswalk.

Add a Comment

Other Cities: VancouverMontreal