Saturday, May 26, 2012Mostly Cloudy 21°C
City

Morning Brew: Darcy Allan Sheppard Funeral, Toronto's Stimulus Funding, Speed Limit Decrease Proposal, Hazing Ritual Charges

Posted by Jerrold Litwinenko / September 11, 2009

morning brewPhoto: "Crema" by bomb_tea, member of the blogTO Flickr pool.

What's happening in the GTA (and sometimes beyond):

In financial news, the feds are now saying that the country will continue to be run at a deficit into 2015, two years longer than their earlier prediction and a far cry from their initial vow to not run a deficit at all (made in late 2008). But with the bad news comes some timely good news, as election fever heats up. Toronto is finally going to get some stimulus funding to invest in infrastructure (in the order of $200-million to $300-million). I'm not sure, however, that re-paving the DVP will do much for the poor saps that are having less sex in poor economic times. Update: 10:28am: Toronto will be getting close to $600-million in stimulus funding.

Would lowering the speed limit on every street in Toronto make the streets safer for drivers, pedestrians and cyclists? What would the effects be on traffic in an already congested city? Councillor Bill Saundercook thinks that since everyone assumes that going 10 over the posted limit is OK, we may as well drop speed limits everywhere by that much. Ummm... no.

Back to school means that hazing rituals are once again under the microscope. Drawing the number "9" on foreheads and bruising newcomers to the school with hockey sticks is fun for the high school seniors, but unacceptable to school staff and to police, who have laid charges in Burlington.

Keep the car at home this weekend. TIFF events on the streets of Yorkville, the Weekend to End Breast Cancer run, Taste of the Kingsway, and the Taoist Tai Chi Society parade are all scheduled - so you're probably better off on the subway or on your bike.

Funeral services for Darcy Allan Sheppard, the cyclist killed in the high-profile case that still has Toronto engaged in heated debate, will be held today in Edmonton. While it may bring closure to some of his friends and family, not all will be satisfied until the pending charges and court case of his alleged killer are resolved.

And yesterday the TTC announced that they've stepped it up large for this year's Nuit Blanche. They'll be running much of the subway all night, and offering a single, special Day Pass for $9 to get you there and back.

Discussion

21 Comments

Picard102 / September 11, 2009 at 09:29 am
user-pic
Saundercook needs a cat scan. If people are consistently driving faster then the speed limit that should be a sign it needs to be increased. Not decreased.
Jacob replying to a comment from Picard102 / September 11, 2009 at 09:45 am
user-pic
What do you think will happen then? People will say "finally!" drive the actual speed limit?

I think it's safe to assume that people will continue to drive 10 over the *new* limit. So, you'll have people going even faster.
Ryan L. / September 11, 2009 at 10:21 am
user-pic
"And yesterday the TTC announced that they've stepped it up large for this year's Nuit Blanche."

They say that every year and every year they disappoint. I highly doubt this year will be any different. Subways will be spaced out too thin and will be filled beyond capacity. Streetcars and blue night buses will be worse and if you're one of the many people who have to rely on one of these, you'll probably be better off walking.

If the TTC does somehow manage to pull it off then I'll consider attending next year. Until then, the infastructure problems with Nuit Blanche have ruined it for me every year besides the first.
Ryan L. replying to a comment from Jacob / September 11, 2009 at 11:03 am
user-pic
There have been studies regarding speed limits and people's opinion on what is safe:

"For whatever reason, respect for speed limits seems to have deteriorated," Mannering said. "A 2002 survey indicated two-thirds of all drivers reported they exceeded the posted speed limit, and roughly one-third reported driving 10 mph faster than most other vehicles. These figures are even more disturbing when you consider that they're self-reported and likely to be understating the degree of speeding problems."

It's a lot worse in younger people: "A 25 year-old driver is 75 percent more likely to think it is safe to drive up to 20 mph (32 km/h) over the speed limit than a 50 year-old driver."

<i>"So the faster you think you can go before getting a ticket, the more likely you are to think safety's not compromised at higher speeds,"</i>

If there was an actual correlation here, then it means that people are driving too far over the speed limit because it's not enforced enough. If you want to make roads safer it would be logical to slowly start being stricter with the speed 'limit'. Instead of ticketing people for doing 135 km/h on the 401, bringing that number down to 125 then maybe 110 (excluding passing) then perhaps people will stop thinking that doing 140 km/h is safe.

Dave / September 11, 2009 at 12:04 pm
user-pic
Lowering the speed limit in a congested city just doesnt make sense, It seems that they are doing as much as possible to make driving in the city harder.

Also th ebest solution is to teach peo[ple to drive properly, have regulated driving schools not just who ever wants to open a school,
any changes should be more proactive, like europe where they have different posted limits for each lane (highway) 130 in the left / 90 in the right.
Diane / September 11, 2009 at 01:00 pm
user-pic
I expect that (most) drivers drive at whatever speed they feel comfortable at, considering the road, weather and traffic conditions ... and they will continue to ignore the posted speed limit.

So lowering the posted speed limit will likely only increase the dollar amount of the tickets that the police can write when they decide to enforce the speed limit.

Since money from speeding fines represents revenue for the government, maybe that's been the point all along.
anastassia / September 11, 2009 at 01:11 pm
user-pic
toronto streets are painfully slow anyways. I rarely see people going the limit downtown. construction is so bad and endless that its ã wonder anyone gets anywhere.
ZoomZoom / September 11, 2009 at 02:20 pm
user-pic
"..so you're probably better off on the subway or on your bike."

Ha. Then the Darcy Shepperd article. Bet he was wishing he didnt use his bike.
TonyB / September 11, 2009 at 02:47 pm
user-pic
Councillor Bill Saundercook needs to take a drive across Bloor and see that lowering speed limits will have no bearing on gridlock!

Lowering speed limits will also not prevent idiots from talking, or worse - texting or reading emails, on their cell phones and not paying attention to the road while they are driving.
Oileanach replying to a comment from Diane / September 11, 2009 at 02:54 pm
user-pic
Spot on Diane! I think if you want to really reduce speeds, then make people less comfortable. Speed humps, chicanes, etc. do work when done correctly. The extreme case is to remove all controls (signs, curbs, pavement markings) as is being tried in a few places in Europe (though not for arterials I think), but I don't believe North Americans are ready for that yet.

On the other hand, if you want to enforce a specific speed limit, then the only option you have is better enforcement. Changing signs won't do it.
Ryan L. replying to a comment from Diane / September 11, 2009 at 02:54 pm
user-pic
I would hate to drive on a road where everyone just drove at the speed that THEY felt comfortable driving. What a utterly selfish thing to do. The thing I feel most speeders don't understand is that they're not alone on the road and that their actions impact everyone else around them. Going significantly faster than the speed of traffic is a downright asshole move. Even if they are the world's best driver they cannot anticipate the actions of other people on the road. The faster they go the shorter time they have to react and the more frequent they put themselves in situations where other drivers' actions could result in a terrible accident.

In regards to people ignoring the speed limit, the study I mentioned seemed to suggest that people feel comfortable driving at a particular speed because of how the speed limit is enforced. Make the speed limit 140 km/h and they'll adjust and feel comfortable driving faster and vice versa.

(This is all theory though. There is no way people would accept a drop in the speed limit.)

Ryan L. / September 11, 2009 at 02:56 pm
user-pic
"Make the speed limit 140 km/h <b>and enforce it appropriately </b> and they'll adjust and feel comfortable driving faster and vice versa."
Picard102 replying to a comment from Ryan L. / September 11, 2009 at 02:59 pm
user-pic
The 401 speed limit needs an increase for sure. The majority of the traffic is going 120-130kph outside of gridlock. It's embarrassing how slow our highways are in comparison to others around Europe and the US.
Dave replying to a comment from Picard102 / September 11, 2009 at 03:45 pm
user-pic
If you think about it, there are a lot of things that are embarrassingly bad here in comparison to US and Europe, Waterfront for example,
but we like to please everyone, so nothing gets done here.
jamesmallon / September 11, 2009 at 03:45 pm
user-pic
Anyone who thinks traffic should ever go over 100km/h, shouldn't be lowered in the city, and enforced everywhere:
-knows $#!+ about physics
-less about the high chance of being in an automobile accident in N. America
-even less about the fact that automobile accidents are the leading cause of childhood deaths.
Are you happy with that?
Diane / September 11, 2009 at 03:59 pm
user-pic
Ryan, I don't think it's right to assume that everyone will feel comfortable driving at ever-higher speeds.

I can name a couple of spots where (most) drivers drive below the posted speed limit. Drivers always go slower when they're in an unfamiliar part of town. Some just drive slower no matter what. And we've all seen drivers slow to below the speed limit when the weather turns bad or the roads become treacherous.

Sure, there will always be idiots. But the very fact that our streets aren't running red with blood means that most drivers are practicing greater care than you're giving them credit for.
Jonathan / September 11, 2009 at 04:24 pm
user-pic
I think this blog or maybe Spacing recently covered trends in Europe to deorganize streets by removing signs, sidewalks and signals so it was just an open space for everyone.

It made the streets safer as everyone had to slow down and pay attention. Perhaps this is the route Saundercook should persue.
Diane / September 11, 2009 at 04:36 pm
user-pic
Jonathan, from the Sun article on this:

"Saundercook is also proposing a pilot project near Union Station that would see speed limits reduced to 30 km/h, and pedestrian traffic controls removed.

"'Make it a zone where any vehicles that are travelling in that area have to go 30 km/h or less and let the people cross the roads, making their judgement whether they can go in front or behind that vehicle,' Saundercook said, arguing it would reduce the large groups of traffic-clogging pedestrians crossing streets near Union Station."
DaveM / September 11, 2009 at 05:26 pm
user-pic
Saundercook has lost his marbles. In Sun article today even the Police throw cold water on this idea even though it would make it alot easier for them to make their speeding ticket quota. When a Councillor wastes the Council's and the public's time with such a thoughtless and unresearched proposal he is telling us that he is wasting a seat at Council where we need to greatly upgrade the quality of our elected representatives.
Herb / September 14, 2009 at 01:57 am
user-pic
Saundercook has the right idea, something a number of other cities have woken up to (see roadpeace.org). If you cared more about children's lives than your own convenience you might support his idea too. The chance of a pedestrian getting killed is 45% at 50 km/hr but only 5% at 30 km/hr. 30 km/hr speed limits have been found to cut child, cyclist, and pedestrian accidents by two-thirds. There are countless other studies showing how these limits save lives, especially children's lives. Countries and cities around the world have already adopted these limits, the question is whether you value your convenience over other's lives. If could cut down cancer or gun deaths that much we would jump at the chance.

The side benefit is that lower speed limits actually help to *reduce* congestion. It seems counter-intuitive but since every motorist requires more following space the faster they travel, going slower means that more vehicles can easily fit on the roadways.

Save lives and cut congestion!
Herb / September 14, 2009 at 02:00 am
user-pic
@DaveM, The police didn't understand what Saundercook was talking about. He's talking about reducing fatalities which are directly related to speed, rather than just collisions. And they also seemed to be mixed up between speeding over the posted limit as what they recorded in their accident notes and the actual speed. Saundercook is pointing out that even if a motorist is travelling at the legal speed they can still be exponentially more likely to kill a pedestrian than if they were going 10 km slower.

Add a Comment

Other Cities: VancouverMontreal