Toronto Garbage Strike: Smells like Summer

When was the last time you saw a garbage strike in Mississauga? Why not privatize it like them and so many other cities, and let these workers realize just how lucky they already are. I am all for workers rights and unions but when unions get this greedy, I say let them see what reality is for so many other people in this economy.

I say why wait? The city should simply start privatizing while the union is out. If I simply decided not to do my job...back when I had one, thank you economy, I would have been replaced.

Why am I paying huge taxes so that the union can have job security? What the hell is Job Security? Cause I did not have it!!!! Nor does anyone for that matter, unless you hold a city hostage apparently. And 18 days of sick days you can hold over for early retirement? Perhaps these people need to read a news paper and see we are in the midst of a global recession and that the people they are holding hostage, do not have jobs. Hard to sympathize when I am surviving on minute rice!

I say we revolt en massse. If they want to protest the transfer stations and they want to ruin our summer and our city. I say we come together a group and picket them. If groups of citizens block their path to their protest locations and do not let them cross. There are definitely enough of us out of work who could do it :-) Maybe a dose of reality would help. Or dump our garbage at the Cupe HQ. There are way more of us then there are of them...and besides if we all go on strike and don't pay taxes, don't pay parking tickets...there will be no money on the coffers to pay them for their job security and their sick days.

Last time I checked, trash collectors, daycare workers and street sweepers never risked the chance of them taking a bullet or dying from smoke inhalation or fire every day they go to work.

where are the CUPE HQ? I have a couple of bags.

While I think the Union's demands are a bit much in this case, the public's seemingly eagerness to turn this city into a shithole just to prove a point seems quite bizzare.

There is no garbage pickup anywhere in the city on Mondays. yet people began illegally dumping, on a day when nobody had missed a single garbage pickup. I thought this city was supposed to be a leader in waste reduction?

If you want to make this city a smelly mess as soon as possible, you're only playing into the Union's hands.

I'm gonna stay the hell out of the debate on the merits of the strike itself, privatization, etc. (since the article's not about that), and instead echo this sentiment: don't be slobs, people. If we all put a little effort into it, I'm sure we can keep this city from turning into a trash-strewn pigsty for a few days at least.

I believe CUPE members are illegally dumping. I mean, seriously, it's been ONE day. We're keeping our garbage in our bin at home, and doing what we can to reduce waste while out (bringing lunch in reusable containers, getting coffee to go in a travel mug, not picking up a free paper on my way to work, etc.). I can certainly see how, after several weeks, the garbage strike would impact citizens (particularly those living downtown without access to a car to visit the far-away drop off stations), but not after ONE day. Something smells.

Unfortunately, mob mentality dictates that if there's one garbage bag on the side of the road... it's ok to add more. Unions understand these tactics very well... although I don't think it takes much to start a wave of apathy across the city...

The funny part is that we're typically so polite in Toronto, people are daintily laying pieces of garbage on to the pile, or I saw one woman trying to 'organize' the garbage so that it was less strewn about.

I'm happy to live in a condo with private trash pick up... figure we should be giving the job to people who want to do it properly. I have never been part of a union and have never had the luxury of bargaining through NOT working... no sympathy here.

Any private companies out there who would be willing to take over garbage collection? I bet we could raise a collection community by community to get the trash off the streets... pay those who want to work for a fair market wage.

CUPE 416 Headquarters

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&;ie=UTF8&q=110+Laird+Drive,+toronto&fb=1&split=1&gl=ca&cid=0,0,17096343639237360590&ei=k_hASoZlk74y16700Ag&ll=43.708788,-79.362016&spn=0.005925,0.013819&t=h&z=16&iwloc=A

Carm, I'm with you: Is there a place where people will protest the strikers? Does anyone know?

The idea that police and fire are dangerous jobs is, at least in Canada, an urban myth. Fishermen, Farmers and Construction workers are all MUCH more likely to be killed on the job than a cop or a firefighter. I'll bet that statistically garbage collection is more dangerous than policing.

Obliterate unions before it is too late. We saw what happened to GM and it is partially because of unions. Now, we taxpayers had to bail them out so they could pay their pensions. Unions were created to keep underage children from working and to keep employees safe. Our standards do not require unions anymore...unless we want to bankrupt our entire country. Monitored private collection works. CUPE does not work.

It is not about being paid less..it is about being paid a fair wage compared to the market and about being efficient with (your)taxpayers money. These jobs require no education or training and offer better pay than a graduate will get after obtaining a degree. What does that tell our youth? It tells them to do less, achieve nothing and get rewarded for it. It's a system that creates underachievers and a welfare state. It is neither smart nor progressive and it sure the hell isn't "Fox News" reactionism.

Oh I'm sorry Socrates, I didn't realize we weren't conforming to your standards. I'm sure the boards over at NOW Magazine will be happy to oblige you.

I don't feel sorry for garbage collectors at all. They chose the job that they have, regardless of how stinky it is. They are part of a union that gives them all kinds of cushiony benefits most people don't get. Like an above post - I don't have job security, pension, dental plans, retirement packages etc... That's the reality. If I don't like my job and I can quit and find another. Toronto residents pay enough taxes already and we've had to deal with all kinds of garbage bin revamps and organizing to make "their job" easier.

I also think it's awful that workin parents may have to use their vacation time to look after their kids since the daycares are closed.

You're not the first city worker I have heard or read say this. You guys should get together and put pressure on your unions - they sure as hell ain't listening to us!

They should all be fired. How many thousands of people would love to have these jobs at 1/2 their pay. Why does the government seem so good at attracting the laziest most useless employees.

"I'll bet that statistically garbage collection is more dangerous than policing." Possibly, but I will reckon that is would be because garbage workers end up doing more actual work than Toronto's finest waste of taxpayer money.

But your point is well taken. I cringe everytime I hear the tired old line about risking their lives constantly. Please, by the time the cops show up, 4 hours later, the danger is gone. ETF are the ones who risk their lives on gun calls, the regular beat cop mostly picks his ass.

as inconvenient as this all may be, why not try and view this as a giant (albeit unintended) social experiment in waste reduction. we all talk the talk about green this and reuse that- now necessity dictates we walk the walk.

This is why I'm proud to be a resident of Etobicoke.

Wow, you are a treat. You chastise me and then do the same things you rail about. First off, do you read well? Paying 2 people (one to do a job, the other to retire) for the same work is idiocy! How is that creating jobs? How is a job "created" by someone leaving their job? IT'S THE SAME JOB! Dummy, public sector work "creates" jobs on tax income. In a shrinking economy and, therefore, shrinking tax base those jobs come with too high a price, especially when the people those taxes employ want enormous benefits as well. Second, I do have an education, most likely far superior to yours. Third, I do know something about these people, even if only through their actions. Fourth, you have no problem having your garbage picked up? Really? Look at any street after these guys roll though and see the crap all over the road - seems even picking up garbage may be too hard for some of these dudes. Fifth, I make more money than they do but I don't have the luxurious benefits.
Lastly, to use your words, shallow and stupid is believing that picking up trash deserves better than minimum wage and huge benefits. Apply that label to your forehead.

I used to be in favour of unions, but after reading these comments and the ones at the Toronto Star site, I'm convinced! Fire them all! No benefits for anyone! To hell with the middle class! No-one without a university degree deserves to make more than ten bucks an hour! YES!

The smell isn't (overpoweringly) bad so far...I like chaos(fun garbage strike kind, not Iran election kind); it'd be neat to see how long this strike lasts, hopefully to the point of finding out once and for all if Mrs. Pasquale's garbage can beat Mrs. Darvinder's in a trashbag sled race down the Davenport dip.

Seriously though, an old friend is thrilled about all this - http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6616/mmgarbage.jpg

I can't believe that people are generating so much trash that they are dumping it illegally within 12 hours of a strike or enduring much time and aggravation to drop it off at one of the transfer stations (contractors excepted). My normal collection is Wednesday and missing one collection is no big deal. If we get up to three or four skipped collections, it may be more of an annoyance.

P.S. I dropped off some dry wall remnants at Bermondsey last Thursday and it took an hour in and out with no picketers.

Just saw this article on the Globe and Mail about a couple of young guys making a business out of this - collecting trash on request in a cube van and dealing with the drop off.

LOTS of potential.
Globe article: http://bit.ly/hytQk
Website of business: http://www.StrikeGarbage.com

so sorry, I figured this would all be so obvious to someone has highly educated as yourself who makes so much money.

>Paying 2 people (one to do a job, the other to retire) for the same work is idiocy! How is that creating jobs? How is a job "created" by someone leaving their job? IT'S THE SAME JOB!

A job is created when someone leaves, thus opening a position for someone else. :P
The amount of money the system would pay for someone who isn't working is MUCH higher than paying someone to take 40 sick days before they retire. :P
Sick days are also banked by the company/city too. The money isn't floating around in thin air, it earns insane amount of interest, thus paying for itself (and then some). :P

A good education doesn't seem to buy much nowadays. I would suggest you learn a bit about macro-economics.

>Dummy, public sector work "creates" jobs on tax income. In a shrinking economy and, therefore, shrinking tax base those jobs come with too high a price

Did I miss the memo where I received a tax cut cause of the "shrinking economy"? Employment taxes do not in any way pay for garbage collectors or our civic economics. I'm not even sure what your logic is here.

>Second, I do have an education, most likely far superior to yours.

There you go making snap judgments again. I had no idea we knew each other so intimately.

>Third, I do know something about these people, even if only through their actions.

Yea, those damn lazy Mexicans eh? You sound like a bigot.

>Fourth, you have no problem having your garbage picked up? Really?

I put my garbage out, when I get home from work it's gone! So no, I have no problems getting my garbage picked up.

>Apply that label to your forehead.

I have no idea what this means. Mind you, I'm not nearly as edumacated as you. :P

Anyone else just get their bill for water/sewage/ and oh waste management this week? Ah the timing.

I will explain it nice & simple for you since you don't seem to understand.
"A job is created when someone leaves, thus opening a position for someone else. :P"
Opening an existing job is not creating a job. If you read your own sentence you would have got that. Look up the word create.

"The amount of money the system would pay for someone who isn't working is MUCH higher than paying someone to take 40 sick days before they retire. :P

Proof of this?

"Sick days are also banked by the company/city too. The money isn't floating around in thin air, it earns insane amount of interest, thus paying for itself (and then some). :P"

The money is the regular wage the person would have been paid had they worked the entire year. It isn't extra money. And where are these high interest loans? You talk to me about economics yet you don't grasp the current 0-1% lending rates we are seeing.

"Did I miss the memo where I received a tax cut cause of the "shrinking economy"? Employment taxes do not in any way pay for garbage collectors or our civic economics. I'm not even sure what your logic is here."

Obvious you can't grasp the logic, you seem to be thick. Did I say anything about a tax break? Did I say anything about employment taxes? People no longer able to pay rent or mortgages due to being out of work and companies closing lessens the property tax base.
Not only that but the city handles social assistance too, which increases in a recession and also comes from property taxes. There are also other considerations -perhaps you should take that micro-economics class.

"There you go making snap judgments again. I had no idea we knew each other so intimately."

I never made a snap judgement about you. I made a guess on probability based on your words and displayed level of intelligence. Besides, you made snap judgements about me first, read your reply to me. Pot or kettle?

"Yea, those damn lazy Mexicans eh? You sound like a bigot."
No clue where you get this from. Also, classic refuge of the person without a real argument - call them a bigot or racist. But hey, that is a step up, you could have called me a nazi. I make my comment on the workers based on their performance of their jobs as I have witnessed and on their obtuse and illegal use of intimidation in trying to block access to dump sites and City Hall.
Grow up.

"I put my garbage out, when I get home from work it's gone! So no, I have no problems getting my garbage picked up."

You may be one of a lucky few. In my polling, a majority of people find trash strewn about their street and lawn for which the union dudes refuse to pick up and leave for by-law officers or street sweepers.

"Apply that label to your forehead.
I have no idea what this means. Mind you, I'm not nearly as edumacated as you. :P"

It means take the label "shallow and stupid" you tried to give me and place it on yourself. Yes, it is clear that you are not as well educated as myself but again, remember, you initiated the attack on education level in your first post and your subsequent reply to me.

The raccoons are the only ones are benefiting from the strike.

You can't say that the mayor is spineless, he had a reputation for being a very powerful lawyer and i am certain can negotiate very well.

My point is that Miller is not inclined to negotiate. He has the ear of the unions and developers. Those who use subsidized daycare and depend upon public parks and pools don't matter to him, to McGuinty or that union who is selfishly holding us hostage--again.

May I suggest the front lawn of the union boss as a public dumping ground?

Your trying to tell me Lastman did better in the last strike.
GImme a break.

Every time cities need money they do this.
The plan is to leave them out X number of days to save money
so they can pay them without sweating it. They will be ordered
back in less than 3 weeks. It is the same old same old.
24,000 out of work saves a ton of money daily and not to
mention the equipment savings.

i respect the garbage collectors and their rights, however i feel that they should relize how lucky they are, becuase they get paid higher than gabage collectors in other ciries and they have better benifits that many other jobs do offer. also, many of the garbage workers are not even residents in toronto, so they really don't care if our city is piled in garbage because it is none of their concern . so in my opion i feel lyk the city should only hire those who are residents in Toronto, because those are the people who actually care about our city. Think about it, how are we able to elect someone to be the mayor for a city that he is not part of? it is the same way in garbage collects.

I think that public servants should not have the right to strike. They are already making about 150% higher wages, have more pleasant working conditions, pension plans and so on.

The following should not have the right to strike:
1. Provincial or federal government employees
2. Health Care workers including doctors, nurses, hospital staff and administrators
3. Transit employees (bus drivers, pilots, etc.
4. Garbage removal workers
5. Electrical grid workers or water sanitation workers.
6. School teachers or university professors.
7. Police or fire fighters.

In exchange for us taxpayers paying such high wages (much higher than public sector), we should expect reliability. If society is to function, we cannot be constantly held hostage by public employees who enjoy a monopoly on their industry.

I can't really believe I am taking the time to dignify this with a response, but WOW that comment is in such poor taste. Taking advantage of this situation to promote your cottage getaway? Maybe I will come visit you, and dump my garbage on your lawn.

<i>Just a thought</i> ... If Toronto residents are really fed up being held hostage under mounds of garbage, why not simply <b>dump your garbage off in front of those picket lines</b> of striking civil servants? Similarly, why not <b>dump your garbage off at municipal offices, police stations, the mayor's residence, the residence's of City councilors</b>, etc.? Wouldn't that make cleanup easier once the strike is over? (<i>Always think ahead!</i>).

If anything, once opposing sides in this dispute are directly exposed to the rotting refuse they so flagrantly inflict on local citizenry, the smell alone might help remind them that their primary commitment is to the taxpayer!

<i>Personally, and as a rural resident, I have no great love for the hopelessly gridlocked, multi-confused 'Big Smoke' or whatever misery its residents so willfully endure. It could be argued that the smell of rotting garbage is a noticable improvement. It's all part of the "Manhattanization" experiment you sewer rats were all so fond of</i>.

We just had our garbage picked up by this company, http://www.trashtoronto.com saved us the hassles of dealing with the strike.

Sam, if you think your friend's job is so great, why don't you do it?

privatization doesn't mean no union. The transit system in BC is privatized, but still unionized by the CAW.
A union can be started by anyone, in any industry. It's a right as a citizen of this country. All you need is democratic support from your co-workers.

And who does Sam propose should do these poorly paid, undesirable jobs that he's proposing to create?

Garbage collector is not a job with a lot of upward mobility. Paying rockbottom wages for this kind of work creates a permanent underclass and costs society in all kinds of ways. Henry Ford paid his workers well enough so they could afford his cars. The city should pay its workers well enough that they don't have to depend on social services.

Re: garbage collector wages.
That is an unfair analogy. Henry Ford ran a (profitable) business, Ford's workers directly contributed to that profitability. The city doesn't sell or create a product to generate revenue. Taxes are the only way to pay these city workers. If the city was generating a profit based on the work of garbage collectors, then by all rights demand more money.
As far as a permanent underclass, it is unavoidable in a class system. There will always be those without the intelligence, drive or capability to become high-paid CEOs and the like, should we rewrite Capitalism to suit the genetics of the weakest member of society? Unfortunately, there are jobs that pay low because they are menial. They aren't meant to have upward mobility and if one chooses such a career as a permanent goal then everyone else can't be expected to pick-up the tab.
As for depending on social services, when I entered my career and was "paying my dues" I survived on less than $30,000 before taxes and needed no social assistance. No one is saying pay them $4.00 an hour but surely you can see the madness of overcompensating people for the job they do - $30+ an hour to do menial work is unheard of in the private sector. This is just about people who don't wish to pursue personal advancement and do a brainless job for literally, going by their demands, life. You wish to reward underachievement?

Bang on brother. I say we have a day where we all take a bag of garbage (or more) and dump it at CUPE headquarters or whatever is in your area. More to the point, bring your green bin (you must have opened this lately and smelled the stench) and dump it where they are striking. I can't imagine anyone showing up for strike duty if we all do this. How about 100,000 strong doing this on Sunday July 19th. After this, on every Sunday (when some of us are off work) we dump bags of garbage on the city hall property as opposed to our parks. I, and most I have spoken with wonder how Union workers can look at themselves in the mirror every day with what they are doing. We as a city need to revolt against what is morally wrong. The awful thing is that David Miller is a socialist and no matter what he says he is for the unions. He will wait for McGinty to legislate these workers back to work after a month or two (which is largly unjustified) and they will get what they want. This is a no win situation as a decent mayor (ie; Hazel) would end this quickly by privitizing the gargabe. Hey Rob Ford, Case Ootes, get on the band wagon. Get out there (you have my support) and get on David Miller. We need to get the people of Toronto mad enough to get this dictator out of power. Start working now and give Toronto a reason for you to run and win the mayorship.

Personally as a city resident I think that it's way to easy to an arm-chair quarterback. Saying that the smell is an improvement is just rude. You don't like T.O.- Stay Home.

can we have a public referundum on whether TAXPAYER DOLLARS should be used to fund 18 unused sick days instead of spending TAX DOLLARS on transit, infrastructure, and social housing??

July 19th sounds like a good idea to me - I'd even suggest July 12th. Call it a "Citizens Strike Deadline". David Miller - your done - please stop wasting our money, please step aside.

Alogon, I've read this entire thread, and agree with you almost 100%. That keven guy has made some hilarious comments such as the "creating" jobs comment, and out of the blue, accusing you of hating Mexicans, LOL. What happens when someone can't conjure up any decent arguments? Straw man arguments of course.

Back to the main topic: Ideally, we would have Miller and his self-back-patting colleagues take a pay cut as well as the city workers. We need them to do their tax paying jobs, but as stated 1000 times, they're overpaid and spoiled. Job security, high wages, and other benefits? Would be nice for me to have that. Sometimes I feel a city worker has to get caught murdering someone before they get reprimanded. I'm not so militant to say, "Fire them all", but I'm all for a huge pay cut, and then they themselves can decide if they want to "fire" themselves or not.

We pay the taxes and deserve respect just as they do. Blocking drop off stations is disrespectful and dirty. You aren't winning anyone's sympathy for that move. It's becoming more clear now that unions today are becoming more self-serving and useless to society as a whole, and corrupt like much of the government. I don't mind dismantling unions making them obsolete, but only if we have a solid plan to strictly enforce labour laws.

If privatization of city labour has worked for other municipalities, then I bet it would work just fine here, plus the benefits of saving tax payers' money, and something that isn't monopolized and can't hold the entire city as hostages.

how to find your local councillor

http://app.city.toronto.on.ca/im/council/councillors.jsp
mayor_miller@toronto.ca

when they gonna start their work?

Sorry but did you think no one littered before the strike? People litter AND throw trash where it belongs, city workers clean up and empty the cans. When the workers are on strike the garbage accumulates, mystery solved.

Dear ria,

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Ria;

I, for one, believe if someone is going to call people out (who you refer to exactly is unclear) for being "dum fucking idiots" it behooves the denouncer to at least make a coherent statement devoid of glaring orthographical and grammatical errors.

If any union member tried to blockade me from dumping my garbage off at a city declared dumping spot...expect to be sent to the hospital, as I would expect to be going to jail.

The garbage strike is a disgrace, and a sound testament to our need as a city to both replace our politicians, they are clearly incompetent, AND dismantle the unions. NOW. Both politicians and union leaders share the blame in this embarrassing, disgusting and insulting debacle. And while they flip the proverbial bird to all the rest of us in the city, we must continue to live in the filth with no voice, reminding us daily our system needs to change. A class action suit would be justified. End this NOW!

This strike has certainly brought the psychotics and fascists out of the woodwork.

Hey J.S., please show us the way by filming yourself in action and posting it here. Show us that superior IQ and lion heart of yours.

You guys will be surprised to know that city managers as well as union managers have been getting triple pay (300%) all these days while strike continues. That's just kind of a game for them. The longer the better!

strikers are breaking the law standing on front of vehicles.

I would like to know why pushing garbage on wheels should be paid much more than trained architects who are responsible for buildings not falling down.

We've really fallen as a society.

"You guys will be surprised to know that city managers as well as union managers have been getting triple pay (300%) all these days while strike continues."
I am calling you out on that statement. Where is the evidence to back up such an outrageous claim? I can find no reference to anyone getting triple pay. There is overtime but if someone is working 12-14 hour days they are entitled to it. Don't spread misinformation to further your own personal agenda and if it isn't misinformation provide evidence to back it up.

Let the waste pile up. Use police force to stop CUPE thugs trying to interfere with people going about their lawful business at transfer stations. Under no circumstances offer CUPE one iota more than the last offer before the strike began. Do not legislate back to work. Keep them out until they crawl back or leave or starve -five weeks, ten, whatever it takes. Do not use wages money saved by not being paid to finance union demands or make better offers. Break this damn strike. Be seen to break it, hard.

Let all the world know withdrawl of services no longer works, even in a big city and even in the summer.

Has anyone ever noticed that union contracts, over time, never get rolled back? Every round of bargaining it is something more the union wants, and the idea that, "this time it's the employer's turn" to get some concessions never seems to enter the union boss heads.

Is there no legal way to end their employment and contract out the work to private companies? Where, oh where, is MIke Harris when we need him!

I'm very curious to know why the police haven't arrested anyone preventing someone from dropping off their trash at drop off sites. Anyone have a valid reason -- preferably with legal explanations?

The deal is more than fair. They should take it and be glad.

"Municipal workers reject city's latest contract offer".
Translation..
“Show must go on”
Guys, try to think logically instead of being brainwashed by media.
City of Toronto as well as all others municipalities in this country were established and registered as business corporation.
What is the main goal for any business? Profit! Right? Not to serve you guys, but profit!!
Now imagine. 30000 employees with average daily pay of $130-150 forced to stay home for three weeks. It’s 4.3 million dollars a day profit!!
Zero investment and 4.3 million daily. That’s the business to die for isn’t it?
I think most of the city strikers not quite good in math otherwise they would already made calculations and realized that even 3% per year increase and 50% sick days payout will not compensate them their losses.

Why can't we clean those stupid road bins? I mean -- we pay taxes right? And the garbage workers aren't working right? I just went to http://www.garbagehelp.com and saw like 50 companies/ individuals EAGER to work and pick up our dirty trash. !Wake up Government!

"But only a chosen few are willing to sweat and bust their balls making an honest living.God Bless us all and say a special prayer for us that no one dies from this"

You're joking, right? I'm certainly not one to pray, but if I did I'd be praying for the mothers who are burdened with less money having to find alternative day care, or the seasonal workers left jobless due to no access to the island or the children bitten by rats or rodents over-populated by neglected garbage or....

Part of the blame for this economy's shape DOES lie with you, the unions and others who think they DO deserve handouts and unreasonable expectations of unlimited, bankable "sick" days and guaranteed jobs. Save the sob storeys for the Union Hall Job Fair...oh, wait, you all still have yours while 350,000 of us continue looking for work we want, respect and earn.

Get back to work.

Well, we the 2.4 million+ people of the city, are not to blame for the economy. As for CEOs and Management bringing companies down, that is a glib statement and illustrates a fundamental lack of understanding of world economy.
To say nothing was handed to you is insulting. You have had nothing but better working conditions and wages handed to you while the rest of the people in private sector jobs who also "willing to sweat and bust their balls making an honest living" got shafted, all the while paying more taxes to keep you cushy.
Dangerous? Please, sitting in a garbage truck operating a robotic arm means you rarely, if ever, even personally touch a bin. You want dangerous? Try elevator repair person, we know for a fact one poor guy died last month doing that job. When did the last Municipal garbage worker die?

"The picketers CAN NOT stop a pedestrian from entering or leaving the picketed premise under any circumstances." Oh, but they do.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/06/25/9918466-sun.html

The more this strike continues, the more it becomes obvious that CUPE, other unions and those that support them are losing a grasp on reality.

ARGUMENT: "Manager's make more money" "TTC employees make more money" yadda yadda yadda. What's next "Doctors make more money."

REALITY. Yes, they do. Stop bitching about it and do something to earn/qualify for that job so you can brag to your buddies that "you make more money than a garbage collector."

ARGUMENT: The contract ended 31-Dec. Why has the City dragged it's feet?

REALITY: Why didn't the union exercise it's right to strike on 1-Jan. I'm sure piles of Christmas wrap and New Years Eve trash could send a message. Oh, wait, it's January. It's cold. Let's wait until summer.

ARGUMENT: Police, Fire and the TTC are watching closely...they're next!

REALITY: The same TTC workers you say are overpaid? No one is "next" unless they are demanding unreasonable and irrational conditions for their contract.

ARGUMENT: They're signing a four-year contract and what if the economy improves?

REALITY: Sounds like a good clause for a contract. Base wages, benefits, etc. on a set, neutral economic factor. Times are good everyone benefits, times are bad, the hit is manageable and fair. Almost sounds like performance-based wages. What's the union's stance on this concept. And while we're at it, city taxi companies were given a $1 hike in the sitting fee due to the "enormous" increase in fuel costs. When the prices went down, did they give back the hike? Um, no.

ARGUMENT: You'd think Mayor Miller would be worried about a pandemic like, wait for it, SARS and N1H1 to hit because of rotting garbage.

REALITY: Might want to check something more than your union newsletter...those aren't germinated or caused by selfish city workers holding us hostage.

ARGUMENT: I feel sorry for all the people who rely on daycare!

REALITY: Really? Hundreds if not thousands of families are now experiencing a true hardship scrambling for care for their children. Why? Because civic workers want 18 sick days per year to equate to wages not their intended purpose. Oh, and the ability to "bank" those until retirement.

I just watched the ctv news and it stated that the striking garbage (city workers, sanitation engineers or whatever they want to call themselves) are illegally stopping people from using the collection centres by delaying them when they bring their garbage to those collection sites. Maybe if people started taking their garbage to the striker's houses and dropping off the bags on their lawns they might, just might realize the error of their ways.

Walk across it. They cannot touch anyone. They have no legal right to stop any pedestrian to and from. If they touch you, then that my friend is called assault. Ignore them and walk across.

Cynalis, as already and easily pointed out, you have some weak justifications for this strike. It's greedy and selfish. How about some Golden Rule application here.

Personally, I'm not affected by the strike, so I'm more or less a "third party", and I completely sympathize with the victims: the tax payer.

This bullying and hostage taking has got to stop. Something more violent can happen. The drop site bullies are able to do what they do because they can swarm a victim, plus the police won't do anything about people breaking the law... unless you practice self-defence. Then I bet you're going to jail with smelly garbage hands.

Ok let me get this straight -- the worst economic crisis in 70 years, 10s of thousands losing jobs in the auto sector (Ontario's backbone), layoffs everywhere (including me), municipalities by the dozens in the US on the verge of bankruptcy --- sounds like a perfect time to extort extra pay from Toronto taxpayers. I really think we should talk pay cut...I'm not kidding. It's the right thing to do. The union wants a nice 4 week summer vacation to seque into arbitration -- their strategy is obvious. Next time you take a cab ask them how bad this strike is impacting Toronto -- it's significant. Stop negotiating and legislate these pathetic, selfish, narrow-minded bums back to work. While I feel powerless now, every interaction I have with these bums in the future will be antagostic.

I feel ashamed we live in a city where this sort of extortion can even take place. City workers, who are overpaid in most of the jobs they are employed in asking for extras while other people in this country are very much struggling to make ends meet. And they are EXTRAS too; in no other career would you see these demands be entertained, ever. I understand the high salary base for a group of individuals that are doing jobs that any mentally competent person would avoid, but at what point is the line between "self interest" and "greed" so thick that crossing it becomes a premeditated and deplorable act? I honestly think we've seen the union cross this line here in 2009.

I will not support these workers from now forward, I won't vote for a pro-union mayor ever again, I will support privatization of these jobs any chance I can get, why? because enough is enough, we've lived with these strikes and work stoppages time and time again, and all it amounts to is more and more money out of taxpayers pockets who, on average make far less than these select few. I doubt the issue would be so great if these workers were supplying the quality of service that was somewhere even close to parity with what they are being paid (Ever wonder why people react so strongly to TTC strikes and fare increases?). This goes for the fund-siphoning hacks at city hall as well, the ones who constantly allow this type of thing to happen if only to preserve their own short lived reign over Canada's most poorly managed city.

The cities residents should be ashamed of themselves too, throwing garbage into the streets thinking it will prove a point, talk of not patronizing restaurants because they "inevitably have rat problems now" as if the owner's don't take pride in their business and just happen to think the same way these jaded losers feel. Take some pride in your city, show these overpaid imbeciles we don't need them. Take the opportunity to amass a mountain of garbage which you'll gladly take to the curb the moment they get back to work, stick a post it note on it that tells them to go fuck themselves. Build that addition to your house, no one's looking anyway. Take the opportunity to rip off that all but meaningless PASS certificate from your restaurant, we all know it's a sham anyway. These people need to be shown that they are indeed expendable, and that they should - like any taxpayer-funded employee - be accountable to the people who pay their salaries.



People ofte

Right On Brother! I agree one hundred percent that these lazy s.o.b.s need to suffer. However I rely on the Toronto Ferry to work and I just found out my wife is pregnant so I have to say the city should do whatever it takes to get these ass-clowns back to work!!!

Dear Jude,

Thanks for your concern.

I live downtown and walk the streets everyday -- from Front and University to Yonge and Dundas, and more. Yes the garbage/recycling units are full, messy, and unpleasant to look at, but for your information the city still looks quite clean (of course the temporary garbage sites are terrible, but I'll let you figure out why). I can tell people have hung on to their garbage to put them into private sites (malls, hotels, food courts, work, et cetera. Thank goodness the strikers aren't there to block those sites too.

I'm sure there are bad apples that litter and refuse to pick up after their pets (the same people who are pricks before the strike anyway), but it's very safe to say that the majority of us ARE TAKING CARE OF OURSELVES and our streets.

As for home owners and such, I don't think you get it: people ARE taking care of their mess, but they are illegally being blocked. Get it?

We CAN take care of ourselves, but we need people to do their jobs. Say do you know anyone who's supposed to do their job, but refuse to do it, and went on strike, took the city hostage, and illegally block city appointed garbage drop sites?

So since I actually live and walk the streets every day in Toronto, and haven't made any sweeping assumptions, I can testify for certain that the city does NOT look like a zombie apocalypse.

Easy with the victim blaming eh.

Yours truly,

A VERY clean Torontonian.

hear, hear.

we live in Parkdale, and nowhere I've walked has become a horricyng ratking-zone...yet. But we're going out to sweep up, and clean up.

How can you side with the union? They are endangering your health, my health, and the health of all of us who PAY FOR SERVICES THAT WE ARE BEING DENIED.

THEY DON'T LIKE THEIR JOB? THEY WANT MORE SICK TIME? THEN QUIT! DON'T CONTINUE ACTING LIKE PIGS. GET A JOB THAT GIVES THEM THE LEISURE TIME, AND GREAT PAY, AND THE GREAT BENEFITS, THAT THEY FOOLISHLY SEEM TO THINK IS THEIR RIGHT, AND NOT A COURTESY OFFERED BY A CIVILIZED COMMUNITY.

What about our rights - we who want nothing more than what our taxes should provide. A garbage-free city.

Perhaps the people of Toronto should take them, and mayor miller (notice no capitalization of first names that denote respect?) to court and sue the pants off them.

I'm curious to know if anyone who supports this strike has an education.

They are cheating us. They are delinquents who have no right to live in a civilized society.

Perhaps they should live with the rats in Toronto. Perhaps you should join them. You, who enjoy garbage.

I don't know how you could have missed the people protesting the strikers at City Hall.
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2009/07/15/301650.aspx

We still have a strike?

City workers are paid a lot for the kinds of skills they require. For example, garbage men: pick up garbage, put it in the garbage truck, drive to the next house, repeat. OMG that's one hell of a prestigious job, they definitely deserve good pay and whatever the hell they want. Okay, so I'm sure they do more than just that but lets face it..not much more. People with no education and no valuable skills should just take whatever is being offered to them and be grateful that someone is even offering them a job and if they would like more out of their lives then go back to school and get a real job.

Heck, even people with real jobs and with real skills are getting laid off due to the economy, so why are those city workers with so much less to offer demanding more and more? Unions are useless in developed countries, we already have minimum wage to protect the workers' pay and all that other crap to protect the safety of employees. If the workers seriously think they REALLY deserve more, then maybe they can find that elsewhere with another employer...but COME ON they won't. Like I said, they have hardly anything to offer to society, just suck it in and be happy with your current pay and benefits (you guys are garbage :D)

I fell unions are an anachronism. But Mayor Miller for all his recent "tough" talk about the garbage strike is an unrepentant fan of them. It's just politically prudent for him to play tough now and presume the electorate have smaller IQ's and shorter memories than he does, ( He really seems to think so.) If CUPE really wanted to make him look like a fool without refuge they would have suspended the strike for one week as a goodwill gesture, cleaned up the city and had the citizenry on it's side.
Unfortunately it's to late now and both need to go.
Do away with as many union positions within municipal government as possible, to do so requires a campaign based on ABM...Anyone but Miller.
The system has gone off the rails. The public service used to mean just that. Now the public serves the "servants".

Actually, I meant did anyone leaving a comment here do anything in protest - hard to miss all the public protests happening here n there.

I hope this group at the Finch and Alness site are not representative of this unions overall membership but sadly I think they are. The parking lot owned by the City of Toronto has been turned into a eyesore. The recent construction of a "lean to" in this parking lot is a good example of not only the lack of skill they have in general and their continued disregard for property that is owned by others. Yesterday when passing by I noted the fire barrel these idiots have been using to entertain themselves was burning unattended within a few feet of their woodpile.
Picketing is a word that has been seriously misused by this union. What I see is a circle of lawn chairs where these fat assed morons sit around for their mandatory 5 hours displaying childish behavior and as mentioned by someone else publicly urinating. This must be CUPEs style of picketing.
Are these the kind of people we want driving and maintaining city property? I would not be surprised if most of these union members do not even live in Toronto so what interest do they really have in Toronto other than sucking out their insanely high pay. This whole refuse collection process needs to be transferred to private businesses by wards which will at the very least get rid of this hostage taking union.
Below is an interesting comment circulating currently.

GWYN MORGAN

Last updated on Monday, Jul. 20, 2009 08:02AM EDT


Gwyn Morgan is the retired founding CEO of EnCana Corp.

Competition is key to the vastly superior living standards of capitalist nations. It stimulates cost efficiency and innovation, while providing the public with the ability to "shop around" for the best combination of price and service. Private sector monopolies are either illegal, or tightly regulated.

But when it comes to taxpayer-financed services such as health care, education, water supply, public transit and garbage pickup, various levels of government are the dominant monopoly provider. Consequently, cost efficiency and innovation are light years behind where they would be in a free-enterprise, competitive environment. While public sector monopolies are seldom regulated, we can generally trust public officials to avoid deliberate abuse of government monopoly power. But what if the power to abuse is in the hands of another entity?

Torontonians are being forced to endure a stinky summer, held hostage by monopolistic public sector unions. In last winter's bitter cold, Ottawa residents were held hostage by a transit strike timed to coincide with the World Junior Hockey Championships. Big international events are manna from heaven for union organizers. City councillors in Vancouver and Whistler, B.C., paid dearly for peace at the 2010 Winter Olympics, granting municipal workers a 12-per-cent wage hike over three years, igniting a growing backlash over the tax hangover residents will suffer for years after the 17-day Olympic party is over.

Even before this difficult recession, unionized public employee compensation was way beyond competitive "real world" levels. Now, when the average Canadian feels fortunate just to have a job, and many are losing them, public sector unions feel entitled to permanent employment and defend their excessive wages and astoundingly generous benefits as a sacred right.

Private sector union membership has steadily fallen, mainly because of the decline or failure of the businesses that employ them. In a competitive, globalized world, there is little room for the rigid work rules, prohibition from rewarding superior employee performance, strikebound production losses, and adversarial atmosphere that renders unionized companies uncompetitive. Witness the performance differences between Air Canada and WestJet, or General Motors and Toyota.

Now the only safe harbours for big labour are public sector monopolies, where competitive alternatives are few or non-existent. Another advantage for union leaders is that those on the other side of the bargaining table don't have to worry that too rich a settlement might drive them out of business. Union leaders are acutely aware that their survival depends on a continuation of their monopoly powers and, all too often, strike-bound public officials support this quest by acceding to "no contracting out" clauses.

This mission to maintain Big Labour's power manifests itself in other harmful ways. For example, the Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE) recently celebrated a successful grievance against PeerScholar, a new online application at University of Toronto wherein students can file papers for grading by fellow students who have completed the same assignment. CUPE spokesman Michael Swayze justified blocking this innovative educational advancement on the basis that "if students are doing marking, then they're in our bargaining unit and must be paid."

This illustrates another glaring flaw in our labour laws: the requirement that anyone doing work which could be done by union members must join the union, even if they don't want to. So we have two toxic levels of public sector monopoly power: government-imposed restrictions against private service providers, and unions that are legally empowered to deprive individuals of the right to work outside a union.

When it comes to the delivery of public services, Canadians are amazingly tolerant of behaviour and service levels they would never put up with from any private business. But the time is nearing when, abused by the workers they are being taxed to pay, Canadians will cry "enough."

Bureaucratic, uncaring and unaccountable "service" delivery experiences bring that breaking point nearer. Images of beleaguered Torontonians struggling to cross picket lines so they can dispose of their smelly garbage will only accelerate the outrage. The contrasting images of residents of nearby Etobicoke serenely putting out their garbage for pickup by privately contracted workers, and the happy Toronto parents who chose "for-profit" daycare while 57 municipal centres are temporarily closed, clearly illustrate that we just don't have to put up with it any more.

The fact that we've seen it all so many times before has spawned a sort of numbed resignation. But what we haven't seen before is the confluence of a painful recession and the spectre of public sector unions using their powers to abuse the very people who pay their wages. Once public outrage catches fire, these unions will have depleted their bank account of goodwill, and will never again be able convince people they serve any positive purpose. Then there is the stark reality that their high wage levels and outrageous benefits programs are simply unaffordable as federal, provincial and municipal governments sink deeper into the red.

Now is the time to end public sector unions' monopoly power by moving ahead with private sector contracting of government services, under terms that provide real-world compensation and accountability.

Steve Suarez
Partner
416.862.5905 DIRECT
416.862.6666 FACSIMILE
ssuarez@osler.com
Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP
Box 50, 1 First Canadian Place
Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5X 1B8

Clean the fucking streets up already! Toronto looks disgusting.

My head is spinning and I am ready to spew chunks everywhere. The grap that comes out of Ferguson's mouth is absurd. This ultimatium he announced is laughable. This sense of entitlement employees have to demand this and demand that is unforgivable. Watching video highlights of this or ANY union strike is "they better give us what we want or else..." sounds like a 2yr old crying for ice cream.

Now - I'm not a legal-begal so I would like some intelligent feedback; the contract is completed. They are striking for a new contract, correct? If I do work on contract and the contract expires I can't strike and picket and insult my employeer and expect to get a new contract. By walking away from the talks - doesn't that open the door for the city to tender service to alternative service providers?

Mayor Miller - stay the course. Don't give-in to CUPE demands. Keep the public up to date and don't allow CUPE spinmasters to downplay the negotiations.

For all you CUPE supporters who are crying foul - don't cry for the cameras when your property taxes go up to pay for these salary increases.

immigrants built this country...we need more and more too keep this country functioning. bring in thousands of people from emerging nations to fulfill this important city service and they'd happily do it for half the cost.

Robert - now there's a threat that we can take seriously. If you cannot contribute meaningfully to a debate than STFU.

Why don't we get rid of the whole lot of lazy workers and hire people who need and want the job? Why waste our time with these princesses??

try another approach: http://www.startech.net/plasma.html
Give these guys a call, and get them in the discussion. Garbage would probably be picked up within 3 days, if this solution was even a fizzle of a thought.

Ok now where is my refund for services NOT rendered?

i dont understand why people dont just put their garbage in the garbage, its sort of like common sense.. im on 13 and i understand how stupid toronto is being. like really ? and yea we should fire the workers who are doing shit all. and the mayor is doing nothing, and now the earth is even worse because of that STUPID OIL SPILL ! like c'mon world ! SERIOUSLY?

yeah man I total agree with that. All this strike going on here and there, it's just because the organisation has monopoly power.