Who's a Fan of Toronto's New Look Street Signs?
Earlier this year the City of Toronto began rolling out some new look street signs. Gone are the familiar acorn signs that we've come to know and love; and in their place are blue and white masterpieces like the Harbord one above.
The new signs were developed with some consultation but not much, or any, input from the public. The results show that clearly some working for our city government are obsessed with delivering on Toronto's international reputation as a clean and sterile place. (See Toronto a La Cart as another recent manifestation of this vision)
Thankfully the new signs have been slow to emerge. I've yet to spot any in all but a few select neighbourhoods. Of course, that hasn't stopped almost 500 non-fans on Facebook from joining the Toronto Acorn Signs Fan Page. Some of the choice comments so far....
Jamie Vernon writes
Anyone in the SIGN business can tell you that dark writing on a WHITE background is easier to read (that's why the acorn signs were designed in the first place) because light reflects back from headlights. The blue background is useless at night because it becomes invisible against the night sky. And with the lettering cast in a narrow font, it will be a blurry mess unless viewed up close.
Deid Vissi writes
This overhaul has all the trappings of some corporate zombie's decision making process. This city is not a shopping mall. It is HOME for millions of people.
John Skaife writes
When the bloodthirsty fatbrained aliens land, they will want to know where they are. They will look at these signs and say, "Toronto. We're in Toronto. The guidebook says this is the city of total wussification. Let's eat!"
Sandy Bennett-Sayer writes
Replacing the acorn signs...seriously....it may seem like an insignificant change in the scheme of things that have come and gone in this city over the years but this change is a historical mistake. Changing the appearance of the street signs to a modernized design is not improvement - it is however an unnecessary cost. Acorn signs enhance this city's distinctive character and historical value that is worth saving! Toronto is losing the quaint pieces of what makes this rapidly growing city attractive and desirable - it seems so simple but the historical value of the Acorn signs is significant and we need to realize that some things are worth keeping!
What do you think about these new signs? Take our poll below:
Comments (91)
The new street signs are yet another sign -- no pun intended -- of the vast creative bankruptcy of Toronto.
Everything should have been done to preserve the beautiful history Black and White Acorn signs. But no.
From the same vulgarians who brought you " Harbourfront," " Ethnic Street Meat " and " Toronto Life Square, " come these dreadful signs.
It's all fucking hopeless.
That should read
" Everything should have been done to preserve the beautiful historic Black and White Acorn signs. "
"...The blue background is useless at night because it becomes invisible against the night sky. And with the lettering cast in a narrow font, it will be a blurry mess unless viewed up close."
And dark and light is tough to see during the -daytime- when there are lots of visual distractions around. The white on dark blue will make the type much easier to see in a busy intersection.
Retch. I've been noticing these cheap, flimsy-looking things cropping up around town. They're dull and graceless and look like they were birthed in the imagination-deprived hive mind of a the world's most stifling bureaucracy.
Okay, that's a little much. They're not that bad. But they do look cheap, and they do look clunky, and they will age terribly. They suck and I hope the city will halt the roll-out and order new acorn signs. For such a major part of the city's visual vocabulary (if I can be that pretentious) the public should've been better informed and consulted.
I think they're easy to read - and I agree with the comment that said that the white on dark is easier to read during the daytime. It is. It's also maybe the first time I've been able to easily read the street number at a glance. Sure, they're not spectacular. Maybe we should've had a non-partisan committee stretching 3 years with 100 consultants make this decision. Maybe we should've gotten somebody to design a custom Toronto typeface to really make the statement that this is a world-class city (wouldn't want anyone to get confused). I've started to feel really sorry for anybody trying to roll out anything in this city/province/country.
"Anyone in the SIGN business can tell you that dark writing on a WHITE background is easier to read (that's why the acorn signs were designed in the first place) because light reflects back from headlights. "
Jesus, I guess we really f***ed up the STOP sign then didn't we?
Well, to be fair. It wouldn't matter what text you put on a Stop sign because the colour and shape is so distinctive.
(Sorry, you were probably being funny. I just feel kind of humorless and pedantic today.)
For whatever it's worth, I started a group on the topic on FB. Look for
" Toronto's new street signs are U G L Y. Bring back the B+W Acorn Signs "
And join. Who knows what if any effect it may have.
I wouldn't feel sorry for them Aaron, because they don't feel sorry for you. Those hillbillies on City Council laugh at you, if anything.
Yes I will miss the old signs, but these new ones are pretty good, too. As others have mentioned, white text on a blue bg is actually quite legible during the day and night, and stands out from the clutter. Mixed case lettering makes the words easier to identify from afar, which is another big win.
Though I will miss the neighbourhood-specific designs, this new city-wide look-and-feel is going to help newcomers easily identify our streetsigns without having to decode meaningless colour schemes, colloquial neighbourhood names and varying shapes and sizes.
Bottom line, this is wayfinding people - not art. It should be clear, legible and consistent.
Bravo on the new street signs.
Join
" Toronto's new street signs are U G L Y. Bring back the B+W Acorn Signs "
Group on Face Book
Also - the new signs are in no way cheap, they are rugged metal plates. Lets talk about the most recent acorn signs if you want to talk cheap garbage.
new signs = BLAND. i like the cool, old, acorn signs, and i also like the street signs with the different neighborhoods on them, ie, little italy, art & design district etc. some of those signs aren't very old, so what's the point of replacing them??
are they getting rid of all the 'neighborhood' street signs for this bland boring sign city-wide?? i think it takes away a lot of the character of toronto's neighborhoods. what a waste of time and money....
I actually prefer these to the idiotic "fake" acorn signs that started to appear several years ago, the ones that looked to be set pieces from a kids' play, approximating the real thing...
But compared to the classic old ones, they are pure garbage. I disagree with the above commenter who says this is "wayfinding, not art." First of all, wayfinding CAN be art (see London underground, for example). Second, it's streetscape -- and that means they should aim higher than signage that looks like it came from a corporate campus somewhere in exurban Jersey. Unlovable.
Opportunity missed, just like the ethnic street meat carts and the sterile, expensive farmers' markets.
Oh yeah, these are better than the phony acorn signs, definitely. But they still look cheap.
These are more visible, but the visibility of the old acorn signs could be improved by making them just a little larger. (And we did manage to get to where we are today just fine with the old ones.)
Of course wayfinding can be art! Anything that graces the public realm can and should be, if not art per se, at least artful. The old ones were. These are not.
The story looks great. The city held four public hearings approximately two
> years ago, attended in total by 48 people. I went to one of them and there
> were only about 15 people there, some of whom were city staff. I learned
> that the city never advertised the hearings on their own website, or in any
> Toronto daily, and I got the feeling that they didn't really want public
> input. Thanks for helping to generate it.
The new street name signs are better than the old suburban street name signs.
Not as good as the old Toronto city street name signs.
However, they are better than the "fake" street name signs put up just before the new ones started showing up.
I have noticed that the city park signs have a similar shape to the new street name signs.
Call me old-fashioned, but I am not enjoying the sterile look of these new signs. I like the classic street signs much more. And similar to what babs said, it detracts from overall character and feel of our city streets.
What is this city to become? Is this a 'sign'? (Oh, that was a sour pun!)
Anything's better than the miniscule East York signs that you have to be practically on top of to make out the street they indicate.
It appears as though the city is also replacing some of the original black and white acorn signs with a newer two dimensional version of the old shape. It still has an acorn on top but it looks as though it was cut with a cookie cutter (it probably was). These signs can be seen on major streets that intersect with smaller ones, such as Queen and Crawford.
I am not a fan simply because at most intersections they are redundant. For example, at Main Street and Kingston Road, you will see the new signs, the Acorn signs and the large blue and white signs above the traffic light.
So are you guys all going to band together and chip in the money required to continue to produce the old acorn design?
I was thoroughly disappointment when I first saw the "urban design" rollout of the signage, shelters, info kiosks and waste bins. But sadly it seems we're stuck with them.
To reiterate above comments, the lack of communication between the City and its residents results in soulless works such as these. I really can't fathom how so many on the committee thought the new design is so much better than our original and charming acorn signs. I'm just thankful I had the wherewithall to take a snapshot of my beloved corner signage last year.
Once I first saw my beloved Crawford street sign had been replaced with this blue monstrosity [seems Crawford was one of the first], I swore quite a bit, then got on the web to do some research. If you'd like to purchase your original sign, they are being saved for collection, awaiting approval by the City to be sold. Send your request here:
signsandmarkings@toronto.ca
At least we're consistent: Toronto has forever been a place where we tear down the old and beautiful to make way for modern craptastic travesties. Was there really a burning need for new street signs? I can't see how this could possibly take financial priority over other projects in the city.
Simply wasteful.
Its not a waste of resources at all. To my knowledge Toronto is not replacing signs for the sake of it - just replacing signs that need replacing. New blue signs seem as cheap to produce as the fake-acorn (fakorn?) signs and much more durable.
This is a pretty good idea actually.. And once they've banded together to pool their resources to pay for infrastructure, they could even elect representatives and erect some sort of central meeting hall at Nathan Philips Square!
I tell my friends back home "I live in Toronto now." And I would always find someone who would say "oh, I've been to Toronto!" Of course, Canada is one of major international tourist destinations, and if you would visit Canada, you would probably come to either Toronto or Vancouver. But I ask further, "so, what do you remember about Toronto?" They say, "uh, Niagara Falls and, some tall buildings..." They say it was difficult to tell where they were, even with tourist maps.
I ask the same question about Vancouver. They say, "I did shopping on Robson, walked along on west 4th, checked out Commercial Drive..." They remember their experiences by the street names, and they say it was very easy to get around, because you would always find nice big green street signs hanging above streets.
Toronto is larger than Vancouver, so rather than streets, neighbourhoods seem to have more significance here. But still, if you would want to locate themselves in a city, you would need to know which street they are on.
As a newcomer, I find new street signs much more practical, recognizable, and consistent in its size, colour and proportions. Old acourn signs may be pretty, but you really have to look for one when you need it. Maybe we can keep some feature acorn signs for sentimental reasons, but Toronto can do better directional signs for sure.
You guys may want to have a look at what Vancouver is doing to raise funding for street signs.
http://vancouver.ca/engsvcs/transport/streets/signs.htm
This may not be exactly what's been talked about here, but it's an idea.
I tell my friends back home "I live in Toronto now." And I would always find someone who would say "oh, I've been to Toronto!" Of course, Canada is one of major international tourist destinations, and if you would visit Canada, you would probably come to either Toronto or Vancouver. But I ask further, "so, what do you remember about Toronto?" They say, "uh, Niagara Falls and, some tall buildings..." They say it was difficult to tell where they were, even with tourist maps.
I ask the same question about Vancouver. They say, "I did shopping on Robson, walked along on west 4th, checked out Commercial Drive..." They remember their experiences by the street names, and they say it was very easy to get around, because you would always find nice big green street signs hanging above streets.
Toronto is larger than Vancouver, so rather than streets, neighbourhoods seem to have more significance here. But still, if you would want to locate themselves in a city, you would need to know which street they are on.
As a newcomer, I find new street signs much more practical, recognizable, and consistent in its size, colour and proportions. Old acourn signs may be pretty, but you really have to look for one when you need it. Maybe we can keep some feature acorn signs for sentimental reasons, but Toronto can do better directional signs for sure.
These signs are horrible, they look tacky, and very out of place in Toronto's historic neighborhoods. I hate them. Long live the acorn signs!
The acorn signs are way too small and hard to read at night. The other set of blue and white signs (white border, blue background, white text) with twice as large font sizes are leaps and bounds better. I assume these new signs will fall somewhere in the middle.
Jamie Vernon's argument seems logical enough, but the old acorn signs were very hard to read too. Too small. It is definitely time for bigger signs... whether the right design was chosen who knows.
But the poll indicates one thing about Torontonians that continue to frustrate me -- they absolutely hate change and are stubborn to stand by the old ways.
People, some things are definitely worth keeping. But this isn't one of them.
I like them. I personally find them easier to read in the dark.
I think I'm in the vast minority on that one though.
"So are you guys all going to band together and chip in the money required to continue to produce the old acorn design?"
How silly. It's almost as though you presume the new signs (and the design thereof) are free.
Smiley is onto something. I would happily shell out for an Acorn Street sign. I'm sure with 5 million residents, there are a lot of people who would happily chip in to pay to keep the old signs or make new Acorn street signs.
But of course, the Hillbillies at City Hall refused to consult with the citizens.
I'm distracted by the big blue diaper that holds the sign to the post. The sign itself? It's fine.
I wonder who owns the signs removed?
bet you they end up for sale somewhere trendy.
a Public heritage, neatly sauntered away.
nah, that's what would happen in books or movies...
Beach is getting new signs on Thu. Unveiling at 9:30am and they are a different design than above. They will not be sterile and will be beach themed of course.
Note, the beach signs I mentioned are indeed based on the new shape but I believe there is more to it than just the name of the street...but yes Toronto could be WAY more creative. The shape looks like corporate street furniture.
God, the new signs are butt-ugly. They are the sort of shiny sleek modern sort of design that ages crappily too (whereas a little bit of wear and tear on the acorn signs only adds to the character, just like creaky hardwood floors in old houses or weathered brick that endured centuries of hail, rain, snow and sunshine).
The old acorn signs are lovely (the original ones, of course, not the atrocious fake variety). They can be a little hard to spot, but if that gets drivers to slow down when riding through residential neighbourhoods, then hurray for that. As for major intersections, I think they definitely need much bigger signs than either the old acorns or the new bland crap pictured above.
They're not replacing perfectly good signs. They're replacing missing or severely damaged signs.
They can't afford to replace the signs with the acorn ones people keep going on about, and people were obviously not happy with the faux acorn ones.
Again, the city finds itself in a no win situation when BlogTO is concerned. They either 1) Spend money they really shouldn't on acorn signs and have BlogTO commenters complain about how the city wastes money on non-essential things such as expensive acorn street signs. There would also likely be complaints on how the signs fail at wayfinding and how the city is discriminating against people with disabilities.
2) Save money on a durable, long lasting solution which has good legibility at the expensive of remaining traditional. This results in comments like those above.
Either way, there is sure to be
A) A comparison to some European city with a far superior system (despite the circumstances being completely different).
B) Accusations of greed and corruption at cityhall, regardless of how irrelevant that is.
C) Completely unnecessary over exaggeration. A helpful chart for those unfamiliar with the system we have here:
I'm mildly dissatisfied with the new signs = Complete garbage that has no right to exist
They're okay...I guess = Horrible in every way, what was City Hall thinking?!
I kind of like them, but I think the blue could be a tad darker = Complete fucking horseshit. My goddamn toddler could do better if I gave them a set of those shitty, no-name crayons that look bright and colourful but end up near invisible on paper.
Take the poll with a grain of salt. The article is too biased to ask for an opinionated answer after reading it.
I know we're over a decade into this Megacity thing, but I liked the fact that one could identify the old Metro cities/borough by their street signs. It's a shame the new signs won't reflect that.
Toronto: Black on white (green in Forest Hill); lit signs downtown
North York: White on blue, all caps
York: White on blue
Etobicoke: White on green
Scarborough: White on light blue
East York: White on blue, with EY logo
Here's my take on the preservation of Toronto's treasured street signs.
To omg
It's the first color of a flag that came to mind. Interesting to know other flags have the same colors as well.
Calling me an idiot only shows you exist with a single digit IQ.
@Sean
Also the colours of The Maple Leafs, but I doubt the colours were chosen to symbolize much of anything outside of Toronto's branding. Not sure if you were trying to come off anti-semitic, or hint at some connection between Jews and the decision to change the signs, but of all the things you could have chosen for the comparison, it's definitely sketchy.
@Sean
Also the colours of The Maple Leafs, but I doubt the colours were chosen to symbolize much of anything outside of Toronto's branding. Not sure if you were trying to come off anti-semitic, or hint at some connection between Jews and the decision to change the signs, but of all the things you could have chosen for the comparison, it's definitely sketchy.
Anyone reading this pointless and embarrassing debate will avoid Toronto as if SARS were still prevalent. Who cares; to paraphrase the immortal words of that great Torontonian, Mel Lastman, noooooooooooobody!
Don't worry - this will be just like any other program Toronto has ever implemented. Soon these signs will be phased out and replaced by some other disaster. And we only will have to worry about these ones on a few poles in random places around the city.
I'm pretty sure there was supposed to be a Toronto equivalent so people could buy decommissioned street signs.
http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/city_routes/pdf/spring2007.pdf
No doubt it was sent out for study never to be seen again?
In Ireland there has been a big problem with road signs being stolen to decorate Irish pubs abroad.
Maybe old Toronto signs from major streets could be marketed to Canadian bars (smaller market I know) in the US and elsewhere?
Sweet jumpin' moses, everyone needs to step back and calm down for a second. Not everyone, mind, but you know who this applies to.
The signs aren't terrible.
They're not great, they're certainly not the best choice, it would have been fantastic if the designs were opened up to the local design community and opinions were gathered from the city at large, but we can live with them.
Do we forget what happened when the city tried to re-vitalize the classic acorn signs? The giant, bland, flat, cut-outs that retained the vague shape of the old favourites. Or how about the drab TO logo that actually came out of a public vote?
The patch-work smorgasbord of halted sign revitalization attempts that litter the city is rivaled only by the failed garbage-can programs.
I would love to see a TO sign that captures the 'Torontoness' of TO. A sign that is uniform across the city, but is customized by neighbourhood with a unique piece of local flavour. We're an old city that has grown up on lofty goals and encompasses a near-global mix of cultures.
Until then, it will be interesting to see if the city follows through and actually manages to complete an initiative.
Scottish flag colors it is!
Sorry Maple Leafs fans... I'll recognize the Leafs colors when they win the Stanley Cup. Hopefully sometime soon.
I don't hate them. I think "sterile" is a fair criticism, but they're a reasonable enough replacement for the generic "acorn" signs. What I will miss however are the neighbourhood-specific designs (i.e. the Annex: http://www.flickr.com/photos/loozrboy/3454318609/)... the new ones seem to leave a lot less room for creativity there, just replacing the boring little icon with a different boring little icon. I have yet to see any neighbourhood branded new signs in the wild though, maybe they won't suck after all.
Yet another great "Millerism" in the quest for improving our great city. When is someone going to call out this guy and his team, for the failed visionaries that they are.
Horrible. Absolutely horrible. At first glance the signs look like cheap blue duct tape wrapped around the pole and plastered across a white sign. What a waste of money. The amount of money that gets spent on useless things at the city is astounding. Don't get me started on the boulevards on Cherry St by the T&T.
Absolutely awful. They look like the types of street signs you'd see in Dubai (a city that truly has zero soul). Awful!
The Globe reports that the blue in the new signs is hilariously ironic Pantone 647. I prefer the '416' acorn signs by a mile. They had a nice weight to them and don't look like a hockey team emblem. Why this decision anyway? What a shame.
Replacing all the street signs in Toronto reveals only one thing:
This city's got more money than it knows what to do with!
In most cases you can't please everyone, in Toronto's case you can't please anyone. Why bother trying? Suck it up you big babies!!!
I emailed Paula Fletcher, my city councillor. No reply at all. She has a sad tendency to be charming but useless. Sad but true, we seem to officially hate to remember that we've had a city for more than a couple of weeks. More like a couple of centuries. There should have been public consultation on it, but it just got thrown in with the "city furniture" contract. Make that "shitty furniture."
Jamie Vernon needs to think for a while about what exactly happens when you shine a headlight at a giant reflective white mass. How do you read the spindly letters then?
They aren’t “cheap” or “flimsy.” Reach up and whack one sometime. (It’s pretty easy: A lot of the new signs are mounted on brand-new poles that hold nothing but the sign.) You want cheap and flimsy? Look at the flat signs that were temporarily used as an acorn-sign replacement.
At some point acorn-sign acolytes will have to admit that the beloved steel box signs with acorns on top were not the only sign format used in the city, possibly not even the majority case. Even in old neighbourhoods in Toronto proper they are quite rare. I’ve got photos of apparently all the other variations, and few were three-dimensional. At least the new signs kind of are.
I am really impressed!.
I am from Slovakia and , too, and now am writing in English, tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "Do not use lamisil if it has ever given you an."
Waiting for a reply :p, Ulla.
Hi all. It is wonderful how quickly you get used to things, even the most astonishing.
I am from Japan and also now am reading in English, please tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "Three people have died and several others have had serious liver reactions after taking a popular tablet to treat related to lamisil, known generically."
Thank :o Dior.
Give please. A large income is the best recipe for happiness I ever heard of.
I am from Cameroon and also now teach English, please tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "Baugur, one of the such methods of funds, not represents iceland, and baugur uk itself baked shortage in february."
With respect :), Angie.
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