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The Corner of Roncesvalles and Queen

Posted by Rick McGinnis / May 14, 2009

Edgewater HotelThere are few main streets in the city that still look the same as they did in the '70s, never mind after nearly a century, and against all odds Roncesvalles Ave. has preserved itself, while the rest of the city has been transformed. Take the postcard image above, printed by R. Fred Darke Photography of Berkeley St. in the early-to-mid-1970s, and taken at the spot where Roncesvalles begins, just after King St. West completes its final, graceful curve northward and ends at Queen.

This is how the corner looked when I moved to Parkdale over twenty years ago, with only minor changes - the improbably-named TEOEL Travel Bureau and its sign had gone, and a massive west-facing billboard had sprouted from the back of the Edgewater Hotel, which no longer offered the "nightly entertainment in fully licensed rooms" promised by the copy on the back of the postcard. The hotel had an abiding reputation for seediness, enhanced by the hookers who paid its hourly rates, squeezed eastward as the Lakeshore motel strip was being demolished piecemeal.

An antique dealer friend, a recovering alcoholic, described its fully licensed rooms as a "bucket of blood," having spent days and nights there in the '60s. The main floor bar had a final, brief return to life as a live music venue in the heyday of the grunge era, before the hotel was emptied and closed. These are the sorts of memories that are reviving themselves now, as I prepare to leave the neighbourhood and the renter's life for our first home, many blocks north of Parkdale/High Park West.

Buses still picked up passengers at the Sunnyside bus terminal next to the Edgewater when I moved into a Parkdale loft, back when The Simpsons debuted on the Tracey Ullman Show and Guns N' Roses released their first album. The terminal closed within a couple of years, and the building limped along as a dingy coffee shop for a few years before McDonald's took it over, then began using city regulations and inspectors in a proxy war with the Edgewater that saw the hotel shut down and taken over by Days Inn, who coated the whole building in beige stucco and closed the main floor bar.

Days in TorontoThe corner looks tidier today, if a bit less lively and infamous. The tangle of overhead wires has been reduced, but the Edgewater's iconic sign has become a victim of taggers, whose access to the hotel's roof has been made immeasurably easier by the billboard's pillars and struts. Everybody complained about the McDonald's, but its arrival was a turning point for the corner, and the Starbucks so fondly wished for by many locals would probably have prevented local fixture Easy from opening up for coffee, breakfast and brunch across the intersection.

The hotel and its neighbour have had a long - and occasionally difficult - relationship; the copy on the back of the '70s postcard brags about the convenience of the bus terminal next door, a last remnant of the heyday of bus travel, and when the Edgewater was what was known euphemistically as a "traveling salesman's hotel," implying a transient but occasionally loyal clientele for whom a good bar and a quick escape were amenities.

This is what that relationship looked like when it began, back in 1939, on the eve of World War Two, with the Edgewater still under construction. I was sent this picture years ago, by the son of the man who ran the B&G Coffee Shop and Milk Bar, back when the streamlined moderne bus terminal was new and the Sunnyside amusement park just across the street was thriving. The hotel and its neighbour will probably continue to live in each other's pockets, but for now at least, my own close relationship with the corner, and the street that begins there, is coming to an end.

B&G Coffee Shop

Discussion

26 Comments

Tim / May 14, 2009 at 08:20 pm
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Love the travel bureau sign
Gregory / May 14, 2009 at 09:16 pm
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Incredible how things change and yet stay the same. I must confess, I still never liked getting kicked off the streetcar at Roncy and Queen.

Rick, I wonder if you ever thought of taking the modern photo shot in the same angle/position as the postcard ones, ala Damon Schreiber http://electro.aminus3.com/image/2007-07-28.html
anonymous / May 14, 2009 at 09:19 pm
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Where is the last image from? Toronto Archives?
rick mcginnis / May 14, 2009 at 09:25 pm
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I think I did a pretty good job of matching up the two shots - the postcard has a bit more of a Batman TV series tilt, but apart from that it's nearly a match. The last photo, like I said in the article, was sent to me by the son of the owner of the B&G Coffee Shop; I lost his original e-mail in a computer upgrade, unfortunately, but I'd saved the jpgs, fortunately.
bbpsi / May 14, 2009 at 09:48 pm
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Was the bus terminal on the site of what is now TTC Roncesvalles Yard? I'm having trouble imagining how it all fits.
rick mcginnis / May 14, 2009 at 09:58 pm
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The bus terminal is on the left; it's the McDonald's - you can see it better in the 1939 photo. It was, to be honest, a very small bus terminal.
W. K. Lis / May 14, 2009 at 10:14 pm
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The Gray Coach lines stopped at that corner on their way west. Buses, cars, and trucks would then travel west on the Queensway until the only left turn allowed at what is now called Colborne Lodge Drive. There were no left turns west of that road until Park Lawn.
Robert Ruggiero / May 14, 2009 at 11:19 pm
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I really enjoyed the images,
Thanks.
Zach / May 15, 2009 at 02:41 am
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God knows I love blogTO but this post made me more happy than anything you've ever published.

Grew up right there. It was always important to me, love that other people care too. It's the corner.
Torontonian replying to a comment from W. K. Lis / May 15, 2009 at 07:18 am
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I believe that there were left turns at Ellis Ave. and Windermere
Ave. There would be a real need particularly at Windermere because of the Stelco plant that was there in earlier decades.

I grew up in that part of the city but I don't remember having occasion to use a left turn at either intersection. I don't remember any restriction either.

It just seems odd to me that there would be a no left turn restriction along that stretch of the Queensway.

Of course, I'm talking about the 1950s and 1960s. Maybe you're
talking about more recent times.
Lazz / May 15, 2009 at 10:13 am
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I would suggest everyone avoid eating @ that McD's, fyi. I was in there once when a homeless lady, ahem, relieved herself all over the floor. And it was not a number 1.

Yes, it was horrible.
Lazz / May 15, 2009 at 10:15 am
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I would suggest everyone avoid eating @ that McD's, fyi. I was in there once when a homeless lady, ahem, relieved herself all over the floor. And it was not a number 1.

Yes, it was horrible.
rick mcginnis / May 15, 2009 at 10:39 am
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I see that some of the neighbourhood's infamous reputation remains vital. That story ought to keep Starbucks and a Nike store away for at least another couple of years.
Nathan / May 15, 2009 at 01:03 pm
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I will say that the one time I was in that McDonalds, it smelled like a bleach bomb. It has an odd institutional vibe very unlike your standard McDs.

The beige stucco they coated the Edgewater with is just beyond wrong and will not age well. I can think of several great old buildings in Parkdale that have been infected with the same viral stucco.

Also, it's not clear in your photo, but isn't there a Thai place in the hotel? And wasn't it a psuedo Indian at one point?
rick mcginnis / May 15, 2009 at 01:13 pm
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There have been several tenants in the Edgewater/Days Inn restaurant, but I've never met anyone who's actually eaten there. It's a mystery eatery.
Mark / May 15, 2009 at 01:18 pm
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The last place was a Thai restaurant called Thai One On. But apparently that's closed down recently. Or at least that's what it looked like a few days ago.
Justin / May 15, 2009 at 01:26 pm
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On a bit of a nerdy note, I notice between the two photos the hydro line congestion seems to have been reduced greatly since the '70s. I'm going to guess it's not due to a lower demand on power, but infrastructure upgrades that seem to pack more of a punch into less of an eyesore.

Now if they could only do something about those streetcar wires...

Great shots.
Mary Wiens / May 15, 2009 at 03:09 pm
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I live in that neighbourhood too ... I kinda like the tangle of streetcar wires overhead .. speaks to the energy of that corner. Wonderful essay, by the way. Some of us have begun advocating to have that corner restored to its former glory as a key gateway in this city linking to the waterfront. A key piece of this involves relocating the pedestrian footbridge a few metres to the west of Roncesvalles and Queen and aligning it with Roncesvalles. The bridge would extend directly from Roncesvalles to the foot of the Palais Royale on the other side of the Gardiner. It would be wide enough to accommodate small shops on either side of the bridge -- like the Ponte Vecchio in Italy -- wide enough for people but not for cars. The folks at the Western Waterfront Alliance who did the Western Waterfront Study for the City, include this new possibility on their plans http://www.planningalliance.ca/portfolio/public-spaces/western-waterfront . (On the plan, you'll see a series of red arrows indicating proposed north-south connections between the city and the waterfront, including one at the foot of Roncesvalles.) The Alliance has a somewhat different vision for such a bridge, equally interesting and perhaps preferable .. they'd like to see a green bridge forming a grand entrance to the new urban park planned for the south side. It's part of a larger proposal by the Allinace to move the Lakeshore lanes closer to the Gardiner in a bid to free up more green space at the water's edge. My apologies for the long post, but would be interested to hear what other people on this thread make of it. That intersection at the corner of Queen and Roncesvalles is a treasure that I believe is waiting to be restored to its former significance, in a way that highlights the new strategy at City Hall to make this a walking city.
Adam Sobolak / May 15, 2009 at 08:47 pm
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When it comes to "the neighbourhood's infamous reputation", of course, the McDonald's positively wilts next to the Coffee Time to beat all Coffee Times kitty-corner. But at least through all incarnations from B&G through Mickey D's, the streamlined metal-fascia canopy has endured.

Was the rooftop sign TEOEL or TEDEL? (And what would that have been an acronym for?)

And as for the Edgewater sign, it's actually been *de*-tagged lately, perhaps in concert with the removal of the Days Inn stick-on on the "HOTEL" part (to be replaced by the newer logo?) Oh, and the north side of the sign is in far better shape: less raped by the tagging bandits, and the "HOTEL" part remains visible.

Keeping in mind the neon historiography that's much more fleshed out in places like Vancouver or Montreal, I wonder who manufactured the Edgewater sign: there's a definite kinship with the gone-yet-immortal-thru-flickr Venus Florists sign up the street, or some of the long-lost motel signs out on the Lakeshore...
Teena in Toronto / May 16, 2009 at 03:44 pm
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I remember the seedy days of the Edgewater.
Joshua replying to a comment from Mary Wiens / May 18, 2009 at 12:35 am
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It's exciting to know people are thinking about making Queen/Roncesvalles/King more exciting again. Now it comes off as mostly a concrete jungle (wasteland) but there are amazing thing pretty much whichever way you pass through that intersection, so the intersection should reflect that better. Making the pedestrian bridge a better destination would go a long way to getting more people using it.
dinamyteTO / May 18, 2009 at 11:48 pm
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As was said before, I've always liked blogTO. However this post in particular really stands out, as I've grown up literally right around the corner from this intersection, since moving here from mimico over 10 years ago. Really great article, amazing pictures. Brings back a lot of memories and stuff.
Kinipela replying to a comment from Adam Sobolak / May 19, 2009 at 01:25 pm
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That Venus Florist sign now resides as art inside of Budda Dog on Roncy
PJG / May 26, 2009 at 08:17 am
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I hadn't been it sections of TO until this past weekend with my partner(girlfriend) who lives here (pre CN Tower) and what a change. I was shown the 'hood by car and by TTC. Areas I had never seen plus ones that I had seen in the past. Wow what a change.
Mark / November 20, 2009 at 02:34 am
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Check this out...same corner, April 7, 1923

https://gencat4.eloquent-systems.com/webcat/systems/toronto.arch/resource/ser71%5Cs0071_it1979.jpg
Wayne / December 3, 2010 at 02:54 pm
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The silver wrap around art deco awning is now gone and the front wall is covered in some dark generic McDonald's tile siding. First the Edgewater sign came down, now McDonald's destroys the art deco awning. Let's take the two most redeeming characteristcs of, let's face it, a less than redeeming corner of the city, and replace them with cheap plastic and low grade industrial paint. Visionary, like a strip mall. Morons and short-sighted douchebags. I'm pissed.

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