City
Is Tim Hortons Brockton Triangle's Starbucks?
Torontonians will remember the infamous scrawl "Drake you ho this is all your fault" spray-painted on the newly arrived Starbucks near the Drake Hotel in 2005, highlighting the coffee franchise's gentrifying image. Pictured above, similar sentiment was recently expressed on the wall of Tim Hortons in Bloordale Village.
Tim Hortons is making its Queen West debut, and not far from the above depicted Bloordale location, a new franchise has opened in Brockton Triangle. Sporting a "Now Open" sign in its shiny storefront window, this new Tim Hortons enters a working class neighbourhood dominated by Coffee Times and Portuguese coffee shops.
Is this Tim Hortons to Brockton Triangle as Starbucks was to West Queen West?
Located on College Street, where the east-west College and Dundas St. almost intersect at Lansdowne Avenue, it is far from a Starbucks-worthy site.
The new Tim Hortons' immediate neighbours are a car wash across the street, a Domino's Pizza and a 24-hour convenience store next door.
Hortons is not known to attract the gentry who frequent Starbucks. Timmies markets itself to the "everyman" with a wholesome Canadiana, not trendy, image. It is better known for its "double-double" and "Timbits" than double, soy latte and almond, chocolate biscotti.
Yet, as local resident Shawn Whitney wrote on his RedBedHead blog, the corporation with 3,238 stores across North America is a step up as far as coffee franchises go in the area. Tucked nearby behind parking spots is a dingy, almost empty Coffee Time, whose once white stucco facade has seen better days. A few blocks away at Bloor and Lansdowne is another Coffee Time well known to local police.
Usually found in corners of low income neighbourhoods, Coffee Time is riddled, fairly or not, with lore of drug dealers and sex workers. Whitney puts it more bluntly when he says "[Coffee Time] are to cafes what crack houses are to wine bars."
The franchise's reputation was further marked as sketchy in 2007 when a CBC investigative report shed light on the high number of Coffee Time franchises on probation for health violations.
"Looked at in light of all this," says Whitney, "the arrival of Tim Hortons to our neighbourhood is a sign of things changing."
Other residents agree Brockton Triangle is a community in transition.
Though the neighbourhood remains raw and unpretentious, qualities that attracted Jose Ortega to live and open the Latin and jazz club Lula Lounge in Brockton, he says the area has changed more this year than in the last eight. Mechanic shops and men's sports bars share a strip with newly arrived art galleries and specialty stores. Condos are soon to be built close to community housing.
Young families and artists are moving into this once Portuguese and Brazilian dominated neighbourhood in larger numbers. Increasingly elusive affordable property and rent in downtown Toronto still exists here, said Sylvia Draper Fernandez, chair of the two-year-old Dundas West BIA.
A few blocks away from the Tim Hortons, Angelina Oliveira, owner of the family-run Brazil Bakery, a fixture on Dundas Street for 35 years, is a place where the old and new residents meet. Oliveira says her previously Portuguese clientele is diversifying but doesn't know if the Tim Hortons that opened about a month ago will change that.
"I see a lot of customers there but I don't know if those customers are our newer customers or not. It is hard to say at this point," said Oliveira.
In an Eye Weekly feature about the Bloordale Village area called The hipsters are coming!, the author asks if gentrification is inevitable or if diversity can survive among the art. I feel compelled to ask the same question about the changes in Brockton.
Written by guest contributor Debbie Pacheco.
Photo of vandalized Tim Hortons wall in Bloordale Village by Chow Dogger, member of the blogTO Flickr pool.


Discussion
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How does a Tim's ruin a neighbourhood?
It's the same ignorant attitude as the Drake graffiti asshole.
The hipster police needs to fuck off.
That Tim's has been there for a while already and does booming business (as all their locations do). And it took over the space after Harvey's moved out, so it's not like they kicked out some hip, indie coffeeshop. Take a walk around that area and you'll see about 1/4 of the storefronts are empty or house long-defunct shops. Any business in that area is good news for the people who live there.
So anyhow, on the topic of this Tim's, as a Lansdowne resident, I was actually pretty happy to see this location open. The Harvey's that used to be there closed ages ago and the 7-11 too. It was a dark corner with only a micro-Domino's carrying on business aside from the sketch Coffee Time at Dundas. Now it's bright, the Saks/7-11'y place is open again and you can wait for the bus feeling a lot safer with all the people out and about. It's not squeezed between two local businesses. It's on a dark corner that was a great spot for it.
(Of course, it slows down the College streetcars as driver stop in to get a cup and chat, but that's a whooole other post)
But, since you're so upset, let me retract hipster police and resubmit "crybaby opponents of non-existent gentrification police". Better?
the ONLY issue here is not tim hortons but the traffic/pollution caused by the drive throughs.
It's a gigantic step-up from the Coffee Time across the street, no doubt. What exactly is wrong with a super-clean establishment with polite, efficient staff providing a consistent product? Honestly.
a "medium double double" and boston cream craving would be the sole reasons i step into a Timmy Ho's. will be good to grab a coffee latenight to sober up though!!
Also, people need to call that strip Blansdwone.
When I'm in the city, I much prefer to give my business to (and get my caffeine buzz from) local coffee shops that have great coffee and a comfortable atmosphere. And I'm willing to pay more. Does that make me a hipster douchebag? I don't think so.
I guess the important question is how the proliferation of TH into all the inner-city communities (that are anchored by small businesses) will be affected. TH will take business away from local, independent bakeries, sandwich shops, coffee shops, and even convenience stores. With huge buying power and distribution capabilities, the little guy will get squeezed, especially during these tough economic times.
Well said.
With regards to franchises moving into neighbourhoods, shouldn't these neighbourhoods be fighting these chains from moving in(*like it's done at other places)? Money talks, but so does people's voices.
ANd one or two major franchises in a neighbourhood isn't such a big deal is it? It's when you get "many" coming out that's the problem, i feel.
Tim Horton's closes underperforming branches all the time - just like Starbuck's, McDonald's, The Gap, etc.
If the neighbourhood _really_ doesn't want Timmy's on the block, then they have to prove it.
It is this type of anti-gentrification "activist" that makes me want to move someplace far away, like Rosedale.
This is not necessarily about this one particular issue here, but the general problem with this argument, which is used far too often.
That may sound like nitpicking, but it's fairly relevant, because what it means is that while a Tim Hortons location might be owned by someone local, Starbucks by definition never is.
Of course, as much as I like the idea of supporting local businesspeople, I'll always choose coffee from Starbucks rather than Tim Hortons.
But better yet is Second Cup. Good coffee. Canadian company. And a franchise.
My personal ranking of coffee chains is the opposite of yours, though. Second Cup coffee, for me, is the absolute worst. I don't know what they do to it but it always tastes foul to me. Starbucks is a little better but their brew is often burnt and bitter. Tim Horton's serves up a decent cup of joe. Nothing special, but it does the job and, due to the high traffic at all their locations, you know it's always fresh. If you want something more than just decent, though, of course you have to go to an independent shop.
"Where there's Coffee Time, there's crime."
The burned out empty strip mall was soooooo much better.
People are assholes.
Similarly, one of the main reasons I don't go Tim Hortons is the locations convenient to me aren't any good. I've certainly had enjoyable Tims experiences before, but not close to home or work.
The main advantage of Starbucks is consistency. And I do like their coffee. The only reason I prefer Second Cup is they have more variety (i.e. about four or five caffeinated coffees to choose from on any given day, rather than just two at Starbucks), but I also wanted to point out that it's nice they're Canadian and franchised.
Vandalism is vandalism and this is just plain stupid. If only people put as much effort into defacing the property of others as they do into, say, something actually productive and not retarded, the city would be a much better place.
tim horton's is the shit
this location has not ruined anything
seriously... we live in toronto... there are more starbucks and/or tim horton's here than anywhere else
medium double double please
no i think we all just realize that bigger issues exist
If you don't like it, don't go in. My god people. It's a coffee shop. It's not like a srip club or swingers club, or sex shop opened up next to Mom & Pops diner where families dine.
Bigger businesses have always been moving into new neighbourhoods, that ain't gonna change.
I think its more that we possess multiple brain cells and we realize that 1 coffee shop doesn't ruin a neighbourhood - especially this neighbourhood in question. An abandoned strip mall was better than a coffee shop? What are you? A leader of a union/NDP/Green party?
Just because its a corporation (which employs Canadians) doesn't mean its a bad thing, mr Marx.
Steve on February 5, 2009 1:08 AM
f**** tim hortons and starbucks, they will change the neighborhood for the bad eventually (already happening). Quite a few corporate cheerleaders/hos defending them above.
---------------
So hilarious!
A little lesson for Steve:
Things that don't ruin neighbourhoods:
Coffee shops
Things that do:
Graffiti
There is a high school that was missing a close place for the students. Dufferin Mall is packed to the point of ridiculous at lunch time...this could take some of the pressure off with some of the students being able to go to Tims instead.
I grew up in this neighbourhood. I hated it when the 7-11 and Harvey's left, and I was happy to see two new and fresh businesses opening up. Is change that bad?
Not in this neighbourood. I think it's a positive thing for the residents.
The grafitti on the Tim Horton's probably wasn't spray painted by a hipster, but it was probably from a supporter of a 70 year old Portuguese grandmother's coffee establishment who's business is going to take a beating. It is because of the dirty hipsters that a Tim Horton's would want to move in to the neighbourhood.
Don't get me wrong, fuck hipsters, but this particular location could use a Tim Hortons.
But I will be concerned at the traffic jam caused by TTC bus drivers and streetcars when they leave their vehicles in the middle of this congested road to get a cup of coffee.
I live in the area, and that junction was a shithole (when the 7-11 and Harvey's were there), was a mega-shithole (when the 7-11 and the Harvey's closed) and rebounded to quasi-shithole now that the Tims is there.
Honestly, I know all us downtown dwellers would love to see little cute boutique shops pop up left and right. But given the amount of Portuguese construction workers in that area, I think a Timmy Ho's stands a better chance of revitalizing that hood instead of a organic, locally sourced, APC and Comme Des Garcon friendly coffee shop that plays Belle and Sebastien.
Yes I am serious
"I think its more that we possess multiple brain cells"
No evidence of that, so far.
"and we realize that 1 coffee shop doesn't ruin a neighbourhood especially this neighbourhood in question"
Yes it does.
"An abandoned strip mall was better than a coffee shop? What are you? A leader of a union/NDP/Green party?"
No I am not, but what about you, are you a brainwashed CPC supporter?
"Just because its a corporation (which employs Canadians) doesn't mean its a bad thing, mr Marx"
Typical corporate cheerleader response, Mr. Trump. What is Tim or Starbucks paying now? 8/hr? you are a big joke if you think that is a good thing, when they are making millions by selling shit.
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Steve on February 5, 2009 1:08 AM
f**** tim hortons and starbucks, they will change the neighborhood for the bad eventually (already happening). Quite a few corporate cheerleaders/hos defending them above.
---------------
So hilarious!
A little lesson for Steve:
Things that don't ruin neighbourhoods:
Coffee shops
Things that do:
Graffiti
----------------
boooooo grafiti uuuuuuuuuuu evil uuuuuuuu I am scared!
LMAROFTL!
"...a Timmy Ho's stands a better chance of revitalizing that hood instead of a organic, locally sourced, APC and Comme Des Garcon friendly coffee shop that plays Belle and Sebastien."
---------
Ha!
1. What the fuck kind of businesses do you want to open in all these empty shops?
2. Based on the current demographics of the neighbourhood, how would these businesses survive?
3. What do you mean by "change the neighbourhood for the bad"?
Still more than what the boutique coffee shops pay, as they rarely even hire.
What is wrong with people paying/making min. wage? I started there. Do you think Tim Horton's and Starbucks should pay 17 y/olds with no work experience, 50k a year?
>"and we realize that 1 coffee shop doesn't ruin a neighbourhood especially this neighbourhood in question"
Yes it does.
Can you explain yourself? or do you just like to shoot of the rhetoric that you learned on the interwebs?
I'm gettin my Grandma two!!!
If the people of that neighbourhood really don't want it there, they can put it out of business by not going there. They will though, because Tim's is consistent and typically lacks the snob factor or "feeling out of place" that a lot of the other coffee shops have.
Not everybody can afford to, or WANTS to go to Starbucks, Second Cup or even some indie fair trade cafe. Some working class people don't care about bourgeois pastimes like carbon neutralizing everything and farmer's markets - that's fine, not everybody has to be into that. There are plenty of Portuguese cafes in the area with their slew of regulars anyways. I don't see what the issue really is. Ithink most residents are pretty glad theres a reputable chain in the area. It actually adds value tothe real estate in the area. Would rather have your business next to a Timmies or Coffee time???
Hey Steve
1. What the fuck kind of businesses do you want to open in all these empty shops?"
Businesses that will not harm our people taking the customers and money away to some rich bastard, not even in Canada.
"2. Based on the current demographics of the neighbourhood, how would these businesses survive?"
With the support from us, the conscious and thinking crowd.
"3. What do you mean by "change the neighbourhood for the bad"?"
For the worse, I am not interested in a soul-less neighbourhood full of Mcdonald's, burger king, timmies, starbucks etc. are you? are you really that blind and superficial?
>Typical corporate cheerleader response, Mr. Trump. What is Tim or Starbucks paying now? 8/hr? you are a big joke if you think that is a good thing, when they are making millions by selling shit.
"Still more than what the boutique coffee shops pay, as they rarely even hire"
What a lame lame comment.. not worth answering it but here I go, how do you know that they rarely even hire? please show us some stats. And even if that is true, at least we know that whatever money this small places are making it goes back to the neighbourhood/city and not who knows where out of the country.
"What is wrong with people paying/making min. wage? I started there. Do you think Tim Horton's and Starbucks should pay 17 y/olds with no work experience, 50k a year?"
Wrong, not everyone that works on those chains are 17 plenty of them are over 30, and yes I think the pay from a corporation that is taking away money from our people at least should pay decent money AND grant all the benefits. Don't you?
>"and we realize that 1 coffee shop doesn't ruin a neighbourhood especially this neighbourhood in question"
Yes it does.
Can you explain yourself? or do you just like to shoot of the rhetoric that you learned on the interwebs?"
Read this post and my latest answer to Untrendy, and please bring something else to the discussion too if you want to be taken seriously and not just another lame question.
1 "Businesses that will not harm our people taking the customers and money away to some rich bastard, not even in Canada."
Like what another shitty art gallery funded by the government so graffiti can go on canvases. YAWN
2 "With the support from us, the conscious and thinking crowd."
Your thoughts pay the rent? what should someone open some organic greenwashed store there so you can feel good about shopping there?
3. "For the worse, I am not interested in a soul-less neighbourhood full of Mcdonald's, burger king, timmies, starbucks etc. are you? are you really that blind and superficial?"
That is where you are wrong. Look for soul, love and faith in people, not in an establishement. Don't judge people by where the buy thier coffee, there jeans, etc. Look for soul inside people, inside yourself, not externally in where one shops, etc.
Your being soo superficial and selfish.
You are young my friend.
You will learn not to harbor so much anger over things like this. The world is a beautiful place once you learn to love it. Who ever is opening this Tims is doing something very exciting for many people, it may not be you, but let them have thier happiness, find yours in something else.
Also, in my formal survey of one business owner, myself, I have not hired anyone, nor to I ever foresee a day when I will be hiring anyone.
And a locally owned franchise which employs people living in the community is different how?
Stats, you have to be kidding me? Here's a stat. Go into any boutique store and LOOK, you know... with your EYES. Logical deductions can easily be made.
>Wrong, not everyone that works on those chains are 17 plenty of them are over 30, and yes I think the pay from a corporation that is taking away money from our people at least should pay decent money AND grant all the benefits. Don't you?
Do you know what the skill level of these 30+ people are? How is a locally owned franchise, belonging to a corporation that pays people taking away money from them or the community? How do you know the people that own the locally owned business are spending that money locally? They buy everything local? I doubt it. They invest all their cash locally? Again, very doubtful. They ALL live in the community that they own these business in? Again, extremely doubtful. You're making baseless assumptions here that everything one way is all rainbows and unicorns and the other way is pure incarnate evil. A common fallacy by people who cannot think in terms of macro ideas.
>Read this post and my latest answer to Untrendy, and please bring something else to the discussion too if you want to be taken seriously and not just another lame question.
You're still offering no real explanation. I have a feeling you have no idea what you're talking about but you REALLY REALLY agree with something you read on spacing.
What a lame lame mind you have. More lame lame then your lame lame statements of how lame lame we are.
p.s. you tagged the word neighbourhood wrong. Next time just kick in a window, it won't expose your ignorant spelling mistakes.
To defence myself, and after having read people's responses on here, i may have attacked Timmy's too harshly. My image of Timmy's goes back to Sudbury, On. where not a very clean crowd of people hung out there(*and i dont mean superficially) But having been to Toronto Timmy's, it does seem like a clean and good place to meet and have some java with people.
So that's where i'm coming from, without your juvenile language. Thanks for your the laughs though.
There's more to work than wages. Sure money is the bottom line, but for many people, especially younger people like students and new immigrants, work gives a sense of pride. Geeze some seniors even work because it gives them something to do. If you don't want to work at Tim Hortons, don't apply there. They are employing people right now which is a sign of hope to some in these tough times.
If you are so concerned about "indie cred" and artsiness why don't you rent the space and open your own coffee shop and charge working class people 2.75 for a fair trade coffee made with shade grown beans picked by AIDS orphans in Ethiopia. You could also showcase artwork made by local construction workers and get all the Nonnas and Portuguese grannies to form a collective to knit sweaters and auction them off for charity at the Gladstone hotel. While I appreciate the idealism, I am sure the single mother at Lansdowne and College is more concerned about feeding her own kids and just wants her coffee to get her through a long day, the construction worker just wants to enjoy his break and the nonna just wants to buy her grandkid some timbits on her way home because she's too tired to make zeppelis due to the arthritis in her hands.
Tim Hortons actually BRINGS MONEY to the community. It's a brand that people recognize. So the real estate agent on his commute home or the soccer mom in her mini van might actually stop at Tims, get a coffee and the realize she has to buy milk and bread at the convenience store next door. People see a Tims and they actually stop and go in. I know this from facts, working near one in the past. Also many Tims are open late or 24hrs and that is a welcome thing to those that work the late shift, or overnight. It's also great for public safety having a 24hr reputable business open.
I find Steve's comments over idealistic. Society doesn't work the way he imagines it to be in his head. While min wage might suck, it's the transferbility of the skills which makes it a good investment in the community. People learn multi tasking, customer service, practice their english etcc.. and next thing they can get a beter job in the service industry. Obviously Steve has never takes any marketting, business, HR or courses like that.
I find your comments over naive.
I didn't know a place such as Timothy Horton's with it's great Canadian history could stir up such a fuss. Only on BlogTO I guess. This is whats wrong with this city is all this negativity about everything. Especially about change on Queen West, or is it Queen west west? majority of the articles on this site are generally about what shops are opening and closing on queen. I'm sick of the hate. Cant this site come up with anything better to discuss? We are arguing about coffee!!!!
I am sorry but I look forward to buying 1 coffee every morning of the week for roughly $5.
Good evening.
L
west queen west is moving and displacing a diverse ethnic community and bringing some lame bullshit with it
to the new residents (broadly termed as hipsters) - integrate with the community, don't try to dominate it by tagging successful businesses that dont conform with your worldview!
I said:
"you tagged the word neighbourhood wrong" (referring the graffiti)
You replied with:
"if noticing a spelling mistake makes you feel superior then go ahead and feel good about it!"
DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!!!!!
You can speak every language in the world grasshopper, but if you can't comprehend the meaning, what's the point eh?
You're right, there's alot of negativity on blog sites today, but can it also be viewed as "communicating ideas"? Everyone's guilty of running with their emotions sometimes when they feel strongly about something. So i simply take the good with the bad and try to have a mature, informed debate about the issue.
Regarding subject matters for BlogTO, they can choose whatever they want, if i wanted a mature debate about some news article in particular i'd go to a newpaper site to debate it there. But it does seem silly to be yapping on about coffee!
And you're right, what's with this "West Queen West" label?? I've lived in Parkdale a while and i've never heard this till recently.
Thanks again lmac. Peace.