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Is Tim Hortons Brockton Triangle's Starbucks?

Posted by Guest Contributor / February 4, 2009

tim hortons bloordaleTorontonians will remember the infamous scrawl "Drake you ho this is all your fault" spray-painted on the newly arrived Starbucks near the Drake Hotel in 2005, highlighting the coffee franchise's gentrifying image. Pictured above, similar sentiment was recently expressed on the wall of Tim Hortons in Bloordale Village.

Tim Hortons is making its Queen West debut, and not far from the above depicted Bloordale location, a new franchise has opened in Brockton Triangle. Sporting a "Now Open" sign in its shiny storefront window, this new Tim Hortons enters a working class neighbourhood dominated by Coffee Times and Portuguese coffee shops.

Is this Tim Hortons to Brockton Triangle as Starbucks was to West Queen West?

Located on College Street, where the east-west College and Dundas St. almost intersect at Lansdowne Avenue, it is far from a Starbucks-worthy site.

The new Tim Hortons' immediate neighbours are a car wash across the street, a Domino's Pizza and a 24-hour convenience store next door.

Hortons is not known to attract the gentry who frequent Starbucks. Timmies markets itself to the "everyman" with a wholesome Canadiana, not trendy, image. It is better known for its "double-double" and "Timbits" than double, soy latte and almond, chocolate biscotti.

Yet, as local resident Shawn Whitney wrote on his RedBedHead blog, the corporation with 3,238 stores across North America is a step up as far as coffee franchises go in the area. Tucked nearby behind parking spots is a dingy, almost empty Coffee Time, whose once white stucco facade has seen better days. A few blocks away at Bloor and Lansdowne is another Coffee Time well known to local police.

Usually found in corners of low income neighbourhoods, Coffee Time is riddled, fairly or not, with lore of drug dealers and sex workers. Whitney puts it more bluntly when he says "[Coffee Time] are to cafes what crack houses are to wine bars."

The franchise's reputation was further marked as sketchy in 2007 when a CBC investigative report shed light on the high number of Coffee Time franchises on probation for health violations.

"Looked at in light of all this," says Whitney, "the arrival of Tim Hortons to our neighbourhood is a sign of things changing."

Other residents agree Brockton Triangle is a community in transition.

Though the neighbourhood remains raw and unpretentious, qualities that attracted Jose Ortega to live and open the Latin and jazz club Lula Lounge in Brockton, he says the area has changed more this year than in the last eight. Mechanic shops and men's sports bars share a strip with newly arrived art galleries and specialty stores. Condos are soon to be built close to community housing.

Young families and artists are moving into this once Portuguese and Brazilian dominated neighbourhood in larger numbers. Increasingly elusive affordable property and rent in downtown Toronto still exists here, said Sylvia Draper Fernandez, chair of the two-year-old Dundas West BIA.

A few blocks away from the Tim Hortons, Angelina Oliveira, owner of the family-run Brazil Bakery, a fixture on Dundas Street for 35 years, is a place where the old and new residents meet. Oliveira says her previously Portuguese clientele is diversifying but doesn't know if the Tim Hortons that opened about a month ago will change that.

"I see a lot of customers there but I don't know if those customers are our newer customers or not. It is hard to say at this point," said Oliveira.

In an Eye Weekly feature about the Bloordale Village area called The hipsters are coming!, the author asks if gentrification is inevitable or if diversity can survive among the art. I feel compelled to ask the same question about the changes in Brockton.

Written by guest contributor Debbie Pacheco.

Photo of vandalized Tim Hortons wall in Bloordale Village by Chow Dogger, member of the blogTO Flickr pool.

Discussion

88 Comments

Untrendy Person / February 4, 2009 at 01:33 pm
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What the fuck is wrong with people?

How does a Tim's ruin a neighbourhood?

It's the same ignorant attitude as the Drake graffiti asshole.

The hipster police needs to fuck off.
Human Fly / February 4, 2009 at 01:37 pm
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Wow, another "Tim Horton's ruins the neighbourhood" piece? Is this going to be a weekly feature on blogTO?

That Tim's has been there for a while already and does booming business (as all their locations do). And it took over the space after Harvey's moved out, so it's not like they kicked out some hip, indie coffeeshop. Take a walk around that area and you'll see about 1/4 of the storefronts are empty or house long-defunct shops. Any business in that area is good news for the people who live there.
Tanja / February 4, 2009 at 01:48 pm
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The haters - i mean, commenters - these days will take any excuse to spout "hipster" hate around here. Or course, this graffiti could very likely have been written by any one of the area residents, not to mention those who were enjoying the dark corner as a space for dealing, but hey, blame hipster's because that's the thing to do. So obnoxious and pointless.

So anyhow, on the topic of this Tim's, as a Lansdowne resident, I was actually pretty happy to see this location open. The Harvey's that used to be there closed ages ago and the 7-11 too. It was a dark corner with only a micro-Domino's carrying on business aside from the sketch Coffee Time at Dundas. Now it's bright, the Saks/7-11'y place is open again and you can wait for the bus feeling a lot safer with all the people out and about. It's not squeezed between two local businesses. It's on a dark corner that was a great spot for it.

(Of course, it slows down the College streetcars as driver stop in to get a cup and chat, but that's a whooole other post)
Untrendy Person / February 4, 2009 at 01:56 pm
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Yeah, the person who wrote it was a 70 year old Portuguese grandmother.

But, since you're so upset, let me retract hipster police and resubmit "crybaby opponents of non-existent gentrification police". Better?

icystuntaz / February 4, 2009 at 02:00 pm
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typical toronto....

the ONLY issue here is not tim hortons but the traffic/pollution caused by the drive throughs.



Hamish Grant / February 4, 2009 at 02:03 pm
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meh people prolly just miss the Harvey's that was there before. I really don't get the hate-on for Timmy's. Sure it's the popular choice. But like Starbuck's, Tim Horton's got that way for a reason.

It's a gigantic step-up from the Coffee Time across the street, no doubt. What exactly is wrong with a super-clean establishment with polite, efficient staff providing a consistent product? Honestly.
Le Marie / February 4, 2009 at 02:09 pm
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the coffee (AND ESPRESSO!!!) at the Portuguese restaurants (versus Tim Hortons) is way better. i don't figure there will be competition as the aforementioned offer very different "products" (i.e. a BLT vs. pannini)

a "medium double double" and boston cream craving would be the sole reasons i step into a Timmy Ho's. will be good to grab a coffee latenight to sober up though!!
matts / February 4, 2009 at 02:09 pm
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Just because some asshole can afford spray paint it doesn't mean there is any neighborhood credence to his or her statement. I bet you 90% of the residents are indifferent or welcoming Tim's but we focus on one idiot because this statement is so in your face.
mikeb / February 4, 2009 at 02:15 pm
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Last year they opened a Tims in Corso Italia on St Clair. Life goes one. All the Caffes are still as busy.
ramanan / February 4, 2009 at 02:24 pm
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I can't wait for "Your Ruining the Neighbourhood" to be spray painted on some brunch place, but you know, in Portuguese. As others have said, i'm guessing most areas residents (myself included) aren't lamenting a Tim Horton's opening up. There has been one at Bloor and Dufferin for a while now, and people haven't become more lame.

Also, people need to call that strip Blansdwone.
Jerrold / February 4, 2009 at 02:25 pm
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I drink Timmies when I'm on the go... like driving through Mississauga or at a highway rest stop on the way to Montreal. It's not terrible.

When I'm in the city, I much prefer to give my business to (and get my caffeine buzz from) local coffee shops that have great coffee and a comfortable atmosphere. And I'm willing to pay more. Does that make me a hipster douchebag? I don't think so.

I guess the important question is how the proliferation of TH into all the inner-city communities (that are anchored by small businesses) will be affected. TH will take business away from local, independent bakeries, sandwich shops, coffee shops, and even convenience stores. With huge buying power and distribution capabilities, the little guy will get squeezed, especially during these tough economic times.
Mark Dowling / February 4, 2009 at 02:32 pm
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"Yeah, the person who wrote it was a 70 year old Portuguese grandmother. "

Well said.
Hamish Grant / February 4, 2009 at 02:35 pm
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really I'm not sure how much business those places will be losing - the reputable, niche-market cafes, bakeries and delis, etc.. The ones who will really lose out are the Coffee Time, Country Site, Coffee Thyme, Coffee Stall, Country Tyme, Coffee Style, etc - most of which are a blight on the neighbourhood to begin with so if they're run out of business by Timmy's then so be it.


Tanja / February 4, 2009 at 02:38 pm
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Yes, artists and grandmothers are the only residents. No wonder crime is so high.
Tanja replying to a comment from Hamish Grant / February 4, 2009 at 02:40 pm
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Yes, Hamish! Now if only this could affect the Coffee Time at Lansdowne & Dupont too, the street would be even sweeter. Ah dreams...
Roger replying to a comment from Hamish Grant / February 4, 2009 at 02:45 pm
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LOL. You forgot Coffee Tip. :P
Parkdalian / February 4, 2009 at 02:47 pm
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I personally find Timmy ho's coffee disgusting, but to each their own.

With regards to franchises moving into neighbourhoods, shouldn't these neighbourhoods be fighting these chains from moving in(*like it's done at other places)? Money talks, but so does people's voices.

ANd one or two major franchises in a neighbourhood isn't such a big deal is it? It's when you get "many" coming out that's the problem, i feel.
Tanja replying to a comment from Roger / February 4, 2009 at 02:48 pm
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That was a classic name. Oh man.
BRIAN! / February 4, 2009 at 02:57 pm
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**Neighbourhood. Methinks the perpetrator could be from the States...
Hamish Grant / February 4, 2009 at 03:01 pm
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You can't really stop a franchise from coming into your neighbourhood. They have every right to set up shop and try to do business. Of COURSE everyone has the ability to stop them. Simply don't spend your money there. If enough people agree with you then the shop will close down and go somewhere else, it's how business works. Simple.

Tim Horton's closes underperforming branches all the time - just like Starbuck's, McDonald's, The Gap, etc.

If the neighbourhood _really_ doesn't want Timmy's on the block, then they have to prove it.
LisaM / February 4, 2009 at 03:30 pm
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I live two minutes from the Bloorcourt Tim's, and have been in the neighbourhood for 12 years, so I feel qualified to comment. This graffiti killed me for two reasons. One, this Tim Horton's is always filled with workmen, families, students reading, teenaged couples sulking, and moms with their babies in the new, useful high chairs. It is friendly and busy and EXACTLY what Bloor and Dufferin needs - much better than the sad, cheerless Colour Your World that stood there before. Two, neighbourhood is spelled with a U. Who ARE these people, and where do they come from?

It is this type of anti-gentrification "activist" that makes me want to move someplace far away, like Rosedale.
duthie / February 4, 2009 at 04:07 pm
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Does anyone else find it funny that the google ad i'm getting right next to the photo is for Tim Hortons? :P
JackNDiane / February 4, 2009 at 04:40 pm
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If Tim Hortons moving coffee and doughnuts into your area of the world is a big issue, you've got nothing to complain about. Think about it. Please.
Shelagh replying to a comment from Hamish Grant / February 4, 2009 at 05:16 pm
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There's a bog problem with the argument 'if you don't like a business, don't spend your money there' as an analogy for voting. People with more money have more votes. So if I don't like a particular business that I think might hurt my neighbourhood, but I don't have a lot of money, I have no vote. If other people have more money, they have more votes and can 'vote' to hurt where I live.

This is not necessarily about this one particular issue here, but the general problem with this argument, which is used far too often.
Shelagh / February 4, 2009 at 05:17 pm
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sorry, that should read 'big' problem
Sean Galbraith replying to a comment from Tanja / February 4, 2009 at 05:33 pm
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Could be worse. You could also have a Popeye's nearby. That is a bad sign.
Peter / February 4, 2009 at 06:12 pm
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By the by, while Tim Hortons is a franchise, Starbucks isn't.

That may sound like nitpicking, but it's fairly relevant, because what it means is that while a Tim Hortons location might be owned by someone local, Starbucks by definition never is.

Of course, as much as I like the idea of supporting local businesspeople, I'll always choose coffee from Starbucks rather than Tim Hortons.

But better yet is Second Cup. Good coffee. Canadian company. And a franchise.
Human Fly replying to a comment from Peter / February 4, 2009 at 06:39 pm
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I didn't know that Starbucks doesn't franchise its operations. It's definitely an important consideration. Also, Tim Horton's usually employs recent immigrants. I'm sure they don't get paid much, but at least it's a job, whereas you're not likely to see a new Canadian working as a "barista".

My personal ranking of coffee chains is the opposite of yours, though. Second Cup coffee, for me, is the absolute worst. I don't know what they do to it but it always tastes foul to me. Starbucks is a little better but their brew is often burnt and bitter. Tim Horton's serves up a decent cup of joe. Nothing special, but it does the job and, due to the high traffic at all their locations, you know it's always fresh. If you want something more than just decent, though, of course you have to go to an independent shop.
Marco / February 4, 2009 at 07:19 pm
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Old Toronto rule of thumb:

"Where there's Coffee Time, there's crime."
radmila / February 4, 2009 at 07:45 pm
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Yes, indeed.
The burned out empty strip mall was soooooo much better.

People are assholes.
You Suck / February 4, 2009 at 07:50 pm
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God BlogTo is lame lately. Who the hell cares.
Peter replying to a comment from Human Fly / February 4, 2009 at 08:19 pm
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Well, one of the downsides of a franchise system like Second Cup's is inconsistency. There's a ridiculous number of locations near me, but I only frequent one or two of them because their coffee's so much better than the others'.

Similarly, one of the main reasons I don't go Tim Hortons is the locations convenient to me aren't any good. I've certainly had enjoyable Tims experiences before, but not close to home or work.

The main advantage of Starbucks is consistency. And I do like their coffee. The only reason I prefer Second Cup is they have more variety (i.e. about four or five caffeinated coffees to choose from on any given day, rather than just two at Starbucks), but I also wanted to point out that it's nice they're Canadian and franchised.
Jerrold replying to a comment from You Suck / February 4, 2009 at 08:23 pm
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People obviously care. They wouldn't be writing blog posts and having discussions in the comments if they didn't care, would they?
DB / February 4, 2009 at 08:44 pm
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As someone who doesn't patronize Tim's, I still think it is a welcome addition to the neighbourhood. I believe the fact that it does a booming business proves most of the people around feel the same. Bloorcourt is not a wealthy area and the Tim's is a cheap place to sit down with a friend for a coffee or grab a cheap sandwich. Nobody complained when an upscale and expensive hip sandwich shop (which I love) opened up down the street that is far more excluding of the neighbourhood's traditional population.
Paul / February 4, 2009 at 08:45 pm
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Shows how stupid some people are. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, LET IT FAIL AND WATCH IT LEAVE. If your neighbourhood is so fragile that a coffee shop "ruins it" then you have much bigger issues on hand.

Vandalism is vandalism and this is just plain stupid. If only people put as much effort into defacing the property of others as they do into, say, something actually productive and not retarded, the city would be a much better place.
jack / February 4, 2009 at 08:50 pm
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and you wonder why we have recession...seems like torontonians hate businesses..oh wait, those should start learning how to knit..
Nizz / February 4, 2009 at 09:22 pm
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I blame a non-Canadian (note the spelling of 'neighboUrhood'.
narrow landsdowne further / February 5, 2009 at 12:20 am
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I used to live in this area, there's no way a Tim's could ruin it. And as radmila says the empty mall was much better... The area needs all the help it can get. I did like living there tho (I did miss the Harvey's.)
Dufferin resident / February 5, 2009 at 12:29 am
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I have been living in the Bloor and Dufferin area for years and I think Timmies has been a warm welcome to the struggling neighbourhood. I am a frequent customer to the Bloor and Dufferin location and have been to the new one on College and Lansdowne. The idiot who wrote the graffiti probably has never even been the stores. Each store is busy with familes, students, city and local business workers who now have a safe and affordable place to relax with friends. Look at all the staff that they have? This has created a better life for people who maybe didnt have jobs before. Both locations have staff who are always smiling and are helpful. Through my visits, I have interacted with staff and management and they are happy to be there. Timmies is doing something right and it never looks as depressing as the other restaurants and stores in the area.
lolz@allof you / February 5, 2009 at 12:31 am
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there are more important things to be concerned with
tim horton's is the shit
this location has not ruined anything
seriously... we live in toronto... there are more starbucks and/or tim horton's here than anywhere else
medium double double please
Steve / February 5, 2009 at 01:08 am
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f**** tim hortons and starbucks, they will change the neighborhood for the bad eventually (already happening). Quite a few corporate cheerleaders/hos defending them above.
kit / February 5, 2009 at 03:11 am
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@steve

no i think we all just realize that bigger issues exist
Jennifer / February 5, 2009 at 03:39 am
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I personally welcome a new establishment like Tim Hortons.
If you don't like it, don't go in. My god people. It's a coffee shop. It's not like a srip club or swingers club, or sex shop opened up next to Mom & Pops diner where families dine.
Bigger businesses have always been moving into new neighbourhoods, that ain't gonna change.
Paul replying to a comment from Steve / February 5, 2009 at 06:41 am
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Corporate cheerleaders/hos? Are you serious?

I think its more that we possess multiple brain cells and we realize that 1 coffee shop doesn't ruin a neighbourhood - especially this neighbourhood in question. An abandoned strip mall was better than a coffee shop? What are you? A leader of a union/NDP/Green party?

Just because its a corporation (which employs Canadians) doesn't mean its a bad thing, mr Marx.

Untrendy Person / February 5, 2009 at 08:28 am
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---------------
Steve on February 5, 2009 1:08 AM

f**** tim hortons and starbucks, they will change the neighborhood for the bad eventually (already happening). Quite a few corporate cheerleaders/hos defending them above.
---------------

So hilarious!

A little lesson for Steve:

Things that don't ruin neighbourhoods:

Coffee shops

Things that do:

Graffiti
DS / February 5, 2009 at 08:32 am
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The problem here is clear but simple to solve. Ban spray paint in Toronto and we'll never have to talk about this subject again.
radmila / February 5, 2009 at 08:36 am
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I think that the comments from people who know the neighbourhood are correct.
There is a high school that was missing a close place for the students. Dufferin Mall is packed to the point of ridiculous at lunch time...this could take some of the pressure off with some of the students being able to go to Tims instead.
I grew up in this neighbourhood. I hated it when the 7-11 and Harvey's left, and I was happy to see two new and fresh businesses opening up. Is change that bad?
Not in this neighbourood. I think it's a positive thing for the residents.
Emily / February 5, 2009 at 08:37 am
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As a local resident of some 6 years, I can honestly say that I'm relieved that any reasonable business is willing to operate at that location. It stood empty for a long time, and that very bleak little strip mall was not prime real estate after the recent shooting there.
SCREWFACE / February 5, 2009 at 10:31 am
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If I may point out something:

The grafitti on the Tim Horton's probably wasn't spray painted by a hipster, but it was probably from a supporter of a 70 year old Portuguese grandmother's coffee establishment who's business is going to take a beating. It is because of the dirty hipsters that a Tim Horton's would want to move in to the neighbourhood.

Don't get me wrong, fuck hipsters, but this particular location could use a Tim Hortons.

But I will be concerned at the traffic jam caused by TTC bus drivers and streetcars when they leave their vehicles in the middle of this congested road to get a cup of coffee.
chenyip replying to a comment from Jerrold / February 5, 2009 at 10:58 am
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Jerrold: I don't think this will ever happen.

I live in the area, and that junction was a shithole (when the 7-11 and Harvey's were there), was a mega-shithole (when the 7-11 and the Harvey's closed) and rebounded to quasi-shithole now that the Tims is there.

Honestly, I know all us downtown dwellers would love to see little cute boutique shops pop up left and right. But given the amount of Portuguese construction workers in that area, I think a Timmy Ho's stands a better chance of revitalizing that hood instead of a organic, locally sourced, APC and Comme Des Garcon friendly coffee shop that plays Belle and Sebastien.

Steve / February 5, 2009 at 11:31 am
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"Corporate cheerleaders/hos? Are you serious?"

Yes I am serious

"I think its more that we possess multiple brain cells"

No evidence of that, so far.

"and we realize that 1 coffee shop doesn't ruin a neighbourhood especially this neighbourhood in question"

Yes it does.

"An abandoned strip mall was better than a coffee shop? What are you? A leader of a union/NDP/Green party?"

No I am not, but what about you, are you a brainwashed CPC supporter?

"Just because its a corporation (which employs Canadians) doesn't mean its a bad thing, mr Marx"

Typical corporate cheerleader response, Mr. Trump. What is Tim or Starbucks paying now? 8/hr? you are a big joke if you think that is a good thing, when they are making millions by selling shit.
Steve / February 5, 2009 at 11:33 am
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Untrendy Person on February 5, 2009 8:28 AM

---------------
Steve on February 5, 2009 1:08 AM

f**** tim hortons and starbucks, they will change the neighborhood for the bad eventually (already happening). Quite a few corporate cheerleaders/hos defending them above.
---------------

So hilarious!

A little lesson for Steve:

Things that don't ruin neighbourhoods:

Coffee shops

Things that do:

Graffiti


----------------

boooooo grafiti uuuuuuuuuuu evil uuuuuuuu I am scared!

LMAROFTL!
Untrendy Person / February 5, 2009 at 11:49 am
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chenyip on February 5, 2009 10:58 AM, replying to a comment from Jerrold

"...a Timmy Ho's stands a better chance of revitalizing that hood instead of a organic, locally sourced, APC and Comme Des Garcon friendly coffee shop that plays Belle and Sebastien."

---------

Ha!
Untrendy Person / February 5, 2009 at 11:53 am
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Hey Steve

1. What the fuck kind of businesses do you want to open in all these empty shops?

2. Based on the current demographics of the neighbourhood, how would these businesses survive?

3. What do you mean by "change the neighbourhood for the bad"?

Sean Galbraith / February 5, 2009 at 11:57 am
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I'm a small business co-owner who rehabilitated a former burned out storefront in Parkdale. I love it, but how many do I employ? None. How much would I pay someone if I could afford to hire someone? Minimum wage. Compare that to the number of jobs, even if minimum wage, than a Tim Hortons bring into a neighbourhood.
Sean Galbraith / February 5, 2009 at 11:59 am
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I might add that I would love if Tim Hortons moved in next door to my place. If big bad corporate Canada thinks there is profit to be made in the neighbourhood, all the better for me and my business.
keven replying to a comment from Steve / February 5, 2009 at 12:03 pm
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>Typical corporate cheerleader response, Mr. Trump. What is Tim or Starbucks paying now? 8/hr? you are a big joke if you think that is a good thing, when they are making millions by selling shit.

Still more than what the boutique coffee shops pay, as they rarely even hire.

What is wrong with people paying/making min. wage? I started there. Do you think Tim Horton's and Starbucks should pay 17 y/olds with no work experience, 50k a year?

>"and we realize that 1 coffee shop doesn't ruin a neighbourhood especially this neighbourhood in question"

Yes it does.

Can you explain yourself? or do you just like to shoot of the rhetoric that you learned on the interwebs?
ramster / February 5, 2009 at 12:40 pm
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f*** I miss that Harveys. Now my nearest fix is at freaking Jarvis and Gerrard. What the hell happened to Harveys that they've practically fled the city? Forget about Tim's, Starbucks or any of that mom-n-pop coffeship vs chains vs hipsters vs the working class bullshit. The sad decline of Harveys is the real tragedy here.
Al / February 5, 2009 at 12:43 pm
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Make someones day, buy them a Timbit!!

I'm gettin my Grandma two!!!
Zed / February 5, 2009 at 12:54 pm
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Is there anything important happening in this city other than coffee talk?
matt1256 / February 5, 2009 at 01:43 pm
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Don't forget that franchises are often local business people as well. They want to run a business, but don't want to work on that "indie coffee shop" vibe either.

If the people of that neighbourhood really don't want it there, they can put it out of business by not going there. They will though, because Tim's is consistent and typically lacks the snob factor or "feeling out of place" that a lot of the other coffee shops have.
Stan / February 5, 2009 at 02:06 pm
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Tim's creates jobs. Mom and Pop Indie shops usually don't create or employ very many outside of thier own families. I'll take a double double...
Peter / February 5, 2009 at 02:25 pm
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I don't find Tims consistent at all. Some locations have great service; at others it's dreadful.
somechick / February 5, 2009 at 03:56 pm
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While I am not a fan of Timmy's coffee I still go there for tea and a sandwich or chili - I like the fact that they generally have a good cleanliness level and consistant product standards. The staff are generally competent and I never feel "weird" or intimidated sitting in a Timmies. I don't live too far from the Bloor and Dufferin location and I will say that many of the residents in the area are more than pleased with the addition. It certainly isn't ass gross or sketchy as the "cracky-time coffee time" that used to be across the street.

Not everybody can afford to, or WANTS to go to Starbucks, Second Cup or even some indie fair trade cafe. Some working class people don't care about bourgeois pastimes like carbon neutralizing everything and farmer's markets - that's fine, not everybody has to be into that. There are plenty of Portuguese cafes in the area with their slew of regulars anyways. I don't see what the issue really is. Ithink most residents are pretty glad theres a reputable chain in the area. It actually adds value tothe real estate in the area. Would rather have your business next to a Timmies or Coffee time???

Steve / February 5, 2009 at 04:14 pm
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Untrendy Person on February 5, 2009 11:53 AM

Hey Steve

1. What the fuck kind of businesses do you want to open in all these empty shops?"

Businesses that will not harm our people taking the customers and money away to some rich bastard, not even in Canada.

"2. Based on the current demographics of the neighbourhood, how would these businesses survive?"

With the support from us, the conscious and thinking crowd.

"3. What do you mean by "change the neighbourhood for the bad"?"

For the worse, I am not interested in a soul-less neighbourhood full of Mcdonald's, burger king, timmies, starbucks etc. are you? are you really that blind and superficial?
Steve / February 5, 2009 at 04:26 pm
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keven on February 5, 2009 12:03 PM, replying to a comment from Steve

>Typical corporate cheerleader response, Mr. Trump. What is Tim or Starbucks paying now? 8/hr? you are a big joke if you think that is a good thing, when they are making millions by selling shit.

"Still more than what the boutique coffee shops pay, as they rarely even hire"

What a lame lame comment.. not worth answering it but here I go, how do you know that they rarely even hire? please show us some stats. And even if that is true, at least we know that whatever money this small places are making it goes back to the neighbourhood/city and not who knows where out of the country.

"What is wrong with people paying/making min. wage? I started there. Do you think Tim Horton's and Starbucks should pay 17 y/olds with no work experience, 50k a year?"

Wrong, not everyone that works on those chains are 17 plenty of them are over 30, and yes I think the pay from a corporation that is taking away money from our people at least should pay decent money AND grant all the benefits. Don't you?

>"and we realize that 1 coffee shop doesn't ruin a neighbourhood especially this neighbourhood in question"

Yes it does.

Can you explain yourself? or do you just like to shoot of the rhetoric that you learned on the interwebs?"

Read this post and my latest answer to Untrendy, and please bring something else to the discussion too if you want to be taken seriously and not just another lame question.
Bill / February 5, 2009 at 04:33 pm
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@Steve.

1 "Businesses that will not harm our people taking the customers and money away to some rich bastard, not even in Canada."
Like what another shitty art gallery funded by the government so graffiti can go on canvases. YAWN

2 "With the support from us, the conscious and thinking crowd."
Your thoughts pay the rent? what should someone open some organic greenwashed store there so you can feel good about shopping there?

3. "For the worse, I am not interested in a soul-less neighbourhood full of Mcdonald's, burger king, timmies, starbucks etc. are you? are you really that blind and superficial?"

That is where you are wrong. Look for soul, love and faith in people, not in an establishement. Don't judge people by where the buy thier coffee, there jeans, etc. Look for soul inside people, inside yourself, not externally in where one shops, etc.
lmac / February 5, 2009 at 04:34 pm
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I have a feeling Parkdalian is the biggest hipster douchebag on this blog. I love Timmies, I love Hockey, I love Canada and I love Toronto. It's people like you who give Toronto bad cred, constantly whining about niegbouhood change, advertising, "THE MAN". Quit you're *&%/ing whining. If someone gets in the way of me and my double double because I'm walking in to a "chain" BRING IT! I will headbutt you and shuv you're keffiyeh up your skinny pant wearing ass!
Gabe / February 5, 2009 at 04:39 pm
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@Steve

Your being soo superficial and selfish.
You are young my friend.

You will learn not to harbor so much anger over things like this. The world is a beautiful place once you learn to love it. Who ever is opening this Tims is doing something very exciting for many people, it may not be you, but let them have thier happiness, find yours in something else.

Bunny / February 5, 2009 at 04:42 pm
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One love, one heart, lets get together and feel alright...

Sean Galbraith / February 5, 2009 at 04:43 pm
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@Steve: As I said, I'm a local, independent, self-funded, small business owner that entirely supports local artists. When can I expect you to come to my place, 1332 Queen St. West (just west of Dufferin) to spend your money. Doing so will keep the evil predatory chain stores from inflicting themselves upon the helpless citizens in the neighbourhood. Bonus: We have a party tonight that you're welcome to attend. We take cash and credit. Sorry, but positive consciousness and awareness is not accepted at par.

Also, in my formal survey of one business owner, myself, I have not hired anyone, nor to I ever foresee a day when I will be hiring anyone.
Danny Gee / February 5, 2009 at 04:47 pm
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Steve let me buy you a Cruller or a BearClaw, lets sit down and brainstorm business ideas inside Timmies. Our ideas are ours and can be great no matter where we conceive of them...
keven replying to a comment from Steve / February 5, 2009 at 04:53 pm
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>What a lame lame comment.. not worth answering it but here I go, how do you know that they rarely even hire? please show us some stats. And even if that is true, at least we know that whatever money this small places are making it goes back to the neighbourhood/city and not who knows where out of the country.

And a locally owned franchise which employs people living in the community is different how?

Stats, you have to be kidding me? Here's a stat. Go into any boutique store and LOOK, you know... with your EYES. Logical deductions can easily be made.

>Wrong, not everyone that works on those chains are 17 plenty of them are over 30, and yes I think the pay from a corporation that is taking away money from our people at least should pay decent money AND grant all the benefits. Don't you?

Do you know what the skill level of these 30+ people are? How is a locally owned franchise, belonging to a corporation that pays people taking away money from them or the community? How do you know the people that own the locally owned business are spending that money locally? They buy everything local? I doubt it. They invest all their cash locally? Again, very doubtful. They ALL live in the community that they own these business in? Again, extremely doubtful. You're making baseless assumptions here that everything one way is all rainbows and unicorns and the other way is pure incarnate evil. A common fallacy by people who cannot think in terms of macro ideas.

>Read this post and my latest answer to Untrendy, and please bring something else to the discussion too if you want to be taken seriously and not just another lame question.

You're still offering no real explanation. I have a feeling you have no idea what you're talking about but you REALLY REALLY agree with something you read on spacing.

What a lame lame mind you have. More lame lame then your lame lame statements of how lame lame we are.

p.s. you tagged the word neighbourhood wrong. Next time just kick in a window, it won't expose your ignorant spelling mistakes.
Steve / February 5, 2009 at 05:07 pm
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Sean, thanks have fun.
Steve / February 5, 2009 at 05:09 pm
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Gabe, thanks for the advice.
Steve / February 5, 2009 at 05:10 pm
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Danny Gee, no thanks. Thanks!
Steve / February 5, 2009 at 05:13 pm
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Bill that was very funny! LOL
Steve / February 5, 2009 at 05:18 pm
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keven you are boring and not too bright, sorry. And if noticing a spelling mistake makes you feel superior then go ahead and feel good about it! by the way, how many languages do you speak? myself 3 fluently and you? who is the ignorant now? you are boring and lame, not worth the time.
Steve / February 5, 2009 at 05:20 pm
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Bunny on, you are so bunny like!
Parkdalian replying to a comment from lmac / February 5, 2009 at 06:13 pm
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Imac: To debate such juvenile remarks towards me is not worth my time. But then again i'm not here to make friends.

To defence myself, and after having read people's responses on here, i may have attacked Timmy's too harshly. My image of Timmy's goes back to Sudbury, On. where not a very clean crowd of people hung out there(*and i dont mean superficially) But having been to Toronto Timmy's, it does seem like a clean and good place to meet and have some java with people.

So that's where i'm coming from, without your juvenile language. Thanks for your the laughs though.
somechick / February 5, 2009 at 06:37 pm
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Tim Hortons is a Canadian company as far as I can remember so I don't see how the money is "leaving" the country.

There's more to work than wages. Sure money is the bottom line, but for many people, especially younger people like students and new immigrants, work gives a sense of pride. Geeze some seniors even work because it gives them something to do. If you don't want to work at Tim Hortons, don't apply there. They are employing people right now which is a sign of hope to some in these tough times.

If you are so concerned about "indie cred" and artsiness why don't you rent the space and open your own coffee shop and charge working class people 2.75 for a fair trade coffee made with shade grown beans picked by AIDS orphans in Ethiopia. You could also showcase artwork made by local construction workers and get all the Nonnas and Portuguese grannies to form a collective to knit sweaters and auction them off for charity at the Gladstone hotel. While I appreciate the idealism, I am sure the single mother at Lansdowne and College is more concerned about feeding her own kids and just wants her coffee to get her through a long day, the construction worker just wants to enjoy his break and the nonna just wants to buy her grandkid some timbits on her way home because she's too tired to make zeppelis due to the arthritis in her hands.

Tim Hortons actually BRINGS MONEY to the community. It's a brand that people recognize. So the real estate agent on his commute home or the soccer mom in her mini van might actually stop at Tims, get a coffee and the realize she has to buy milk and bread at the convenience store next door. People see a Tims and they actually stop and go in. I know this from facts, working near one in the past. Also many Tims are open late or 24hrs and that is a welcome thing to those that work the late shift, or overnight. It's also great for public safety having a 24hr reputable business open.

I find Steve's comments over idealistic. Society doesn't work the way he imagines it to be in his head. While min wage might suck, it's the transferbility of the skills which makes it a good investment in the community. People learn multi tasking, customer service, practice their english etcc.. and next thing they can get a beter job in the service industry. Obviously Steve has never takes any marketting, business, HR or courses like that.


Steve / February 5, 2009 at 06:54 pm
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You have it ALL wrong somechick, starting with the fact that Tim Hortons is not Canadian, but American. It is owned by Wendy's International Inc. since 1995.

I find your comments over naive.
lmac / February 5, 2009 at 07:03 pm
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Parkdailian. I apologize for my juvenile behavior. I thought that was the etiquette around here since all of the articles are of juvenile nature.

I didn't know a place such as Timothy Horton's with it's great Canadian history could stir up such a fuss. Only on BlogTO I guess. This is whats wrong with this city is all this negativity about everything. Especially about change on Queen West, or is it Queen west west? majority of the articles on this site are generally about what shops are opening and closing on queen. I'm sick of the hate. Cant this site come up with anything better to discuss? We are arguing about coffee!!!!

I am sorry but I look forward to buying 1 coffee every morning of the week for roughly $5.

Good evening.

L
bring back the nanaimo bar / February 5, 2009 at 07:52 pm
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lol @ the guy who wanted the galleries tagged

west queen west is moving and displacing a diverse ethnic community and bringing some lame bullshit with it

to the new residents (broadly termed as hipsters) - integrate with the community, don't try to dominate it by tagging successful businesses that dont conform with your worldview!
Kevin / February 6, 2009 at 02:14 am
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I passed by there yesterday at 9pm, and it was almost the only store still open that I would want to go into. All these local stores are great and all, but most don't stay open late or aren't as welcoming as a store that you know already. Everyone I saw inside was generally happy as well.
keven / February 6, 2009 at 07:04 am
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@steve

I said:

"you tagged the word neighbourhood wrong" (referring the graffiti)

You replied with:

"if noticing a spelling mistake makes you feel superior then go ahead and feel good about it!"

DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!!!!!

You can speak every language in the world grasshopper, but if you can't comprehend the meaning, what's the point eh?
Steve / February 6, 2009 at 09:54 am
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keven, please stop it, your last post is way too silly and I can't help feeling pitty for you. Face it, it is over, you lose.
Parkdalian replying to a comment from lmac / February 6, 2009 at 11:05 am
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Lmac: I appreciate your apology Lmac. It was a plesant surprise.

You're right, there's alot of negativity on blog sites today, but can it also be viewed as "communicating ideas"? Everyone's guilty of running with their emotions sometimes when they feel strongly about something. So i simply take the good with the bad and try to have a mature, informed debate about the issue.

Regarding subject matters for BlogTO, they can choose whatever they want, if i wanted a mature debate about some news article in particular i'd go to a newpaper site to debate it there. But it does seem silly to be yapping on about coffee!

And you're right, what's with this "West Queen West" label?? I've lived in Parkdale a while and i've never heard this till recently.

Thanks again lmac. Peace.
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