City
Tim Hortons Readies for Queen West Debut
Tim Hortons is gradually gearing up for its debut on Queen West near the corner of Queen and Bathurst. Joining Starbucks at the once-maligned intersection, Canada's much loved donut chain takes over the space formerly home to the Queens Head Pub.
It's an odd move for the decidedly un-hip purveyor of chocolate glazes, honey crullers and Roll Up the Rim to Win coffee gimmicks; and one that I don't completely understand.
To suggest that the neighbourhood needs a Tim Hortons would be a bit of a stretch. There's already good cheap coffee across the street at Artistic Grounds; and plenty of alternatives at the nearby Niche, Greenavi and Tequila Bookworm. Even for commuters, their Timbits and coffee can be had inside a Shell station on the way to the DVP at King and Strachan.
What's also uncertain is what this move might foreshadow for this transitional stretch on Queen. Its neighbours - Pizza Pizza and the Pita Pit - don't exactly scream "Art + Design District" and one would think that Cosmos West Records is wondering how it ended up with such a neighbour. Rotate This knew what was coming when they packed up and moved west earlier this year.
What do you think? Is this a positive development for Queen West? Take our poll below.
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Tim Hortons doesn't seem like such a bad neighbour. I'm sorry if it's not "cool" enough for you. Would you rather have a whorehouse move in next door or something?
For drivers in the neighbourhood, wouldn't it be wonderful to see a Tim Horton's "kiosk" style location inside the Metro grocery store in Liberty Village? This would definitely take the load off of the King & Strachan location in the Esso station, where parking is next to impossible.
Obviously the pub wasn't impressed with the money it was making.
The same thing will happen to Timmy's if the neighbourhood doesn't support it.
I remember being at the Paddock about 20 years ago ... it was such a dump them.
I liked the pub that had moved in there.
+1 bbpsi.
alright so is tim hortons moving in on this corner better/worse than starbucks?
If you don't like Tim Horton's, then don't buy it and then watch as they pack up and leave. Some of you act like one store will tear the fabric of a neighbourhood in one fell swoop.
There's a Starbucks near me - I hate how the coffee smells and tastes like an enema (and I'm not fan of Timmies either), but I don't see the point in tagging the facade, whining, etc.
You guys should find something better to do like make a poem about how much you dislike songs on the radio because they are commerical sellouts, or how its preppy to wear new clothes or join a union or something.
A wide variety of people live and work in this area, why wouldn't many of them go to Tim's?
And is Timmy's really canada's much belived donut chain anymore, really? It's like the equivalent of McDonalds, but for deserts!
Queen and Bathurst isn't really "Queen West" anymore, let's be honest. Now it's anything west of Ossington. And I love it when big chains move into a hip neighbourhoods, every LEAVES!(should teach them a lesson)
If i want shitty burnt Americanized Timmy's coffee or skinny jeans from the GAP, i'll go to Vaughn.
This neighbourhood isn't a clique, it's not Kensington Market - god love it - there aren't going to be people protesting stores like this opening. There are certainly stores in the area that attract the cliquey but I don't see those customers living here.
People that ascribe a de-facto character to neighborhoods are so pretencious it makes me ill.
Just maybe, not everyone shares in your concept of "the neighborhoods character".
For example, why don't you ask the immigrant girls who will likely work at the tim hortons how they feel about being part of the creeping mediocrity that is tim hortons?
My guess is they won't give a shit and they'll just be happy to have a job at all.
But I guess a worldwide economic slowdown is no match for the tunnel-vision of Toronto's self-centered uppity douchebag "self confessed art+design fan" community.
And, by the way, I don't see too many immigrants employed at any of the coffee shops that the blog author presents as alternatives. But I guess that's not as important an issue as the "HORRORS OF GENTRIFICATION!!! OMG!!".
And finally, if I ever found myself on the same side of an argument as some idiot fucking child with a spray can, I'd HOPE it would set off some alarm bells in my head. Just generally I think that's a good rule to live by.
Un-hip? Roll up the Rim Coffee gimmicks? Really? That's what you have to say about Timmies? Let's be fair, those who go to Timmies are not the type of people who will go to Niche or Greenavi. The coffee may not be for everyone, but it sure is nice to have an establishment that services the middle to low classes, without making them feel uncomfortable. It's enough that we're driving out these people from the core of the city to said VaughAn or elsewhere. So yes, the neighbourhood could do well with it (check Cabbagetown or the Annex).
Example: I know I can walk into Niche, get my Americano and sit on those Bertoia chairs, but my mom will prefer her double-double from Tim Hortons. Don't cross my mom.
Plus, it will be a dozen or so more service jobs for the lower income classes or even students and it's 24 hours.
PS. I lurvve Boston Creams and Honey Crullers. (Does lurve have an 'e' at the end?)
keeps my coffee hot all day.
Can't imagine why anyone would prefer to pay even $1 for a paper cup.
Its almost as if you're saying that if a neighbourhood is destroyed by the inclusion of a coffee shop, then the pretentiousness lies with those complaining about it.
"Hey Acer! NEWS FLASH: People who love their community and creative entrepreneurialship givE a shit!
If i want shitty burnt Americanized Timmy's coffee..."
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL so you love your community so much you think its being destroyed because one store sells coffee you don't like. WOW. I'm guessing you spend your free time driving your Prius to NDP/Green party rallies and think any band or singer on the radio is a sellout.
What happens if a store in the neighbourhood becomes really successful and goes nation-wide, and becomes a household name? Would you tag it with graffiti? Write poems condemning commerce?
As someone who lives in the area and shops at the smaller stores, I really don't see what the big problem is. Some of you sheltered and coddled people really need to get your priorities straight. Its amazing how a Tim Horton's opening up causes more furor and debate than city-wide violence, international issues, power hungry unions, etc.
PS. Anyone that thinks Queen west is hip is 10 years late. Go move to LA or The Lower East Side if you are so unhappy with what Toronto has to offer. We don't want your negativity. You are what is wrong with this city. Sorry if Toronto doesn't meet your standards of "hip".
I predict lineups, and I wouldn't be surprised if many of the naysayers on this list find themselves in said lineups from time to time.
While I prefer the rows of dingy, sketched out pubs that at one point lived in harmony with the rehabbed arts district, those days are over. That's neither a good thing nor a bad thing, unless you're either a) all for progress, or b) clingy and nostalgic. In truth, it's too late to say if it's good or bad for the neighborhood, because that stretch hardly even resembles what it did as little as two years ago (it's shocking, really). Tim Horton's is just another drop in the pond there. It's a defeatist stance, but not really, because there will always be places that cater to what the corner used to represent beyond crack abuse and drinking paint thinner. You know, the good stuff.
You can't complain about a Tim Horton's when there's a Pizza Pizza next door. At least the beige storefront is a lot less garish than the neon orange of Pizza Pizza.
So it's not wanted on Queen West, it's not wanted in Cityplace. I mean wtf? Within 500 metres of Queen and Bathurst are two Starbucks and two Second Cups. The overeducated intelligentsia with Queen west so close to its heart has its fair share of choices available. I'd rather avoid a heavy serving of pretentiousness with my daily cup'a joe.
And Cityplace- contrary to what most non-residents might think, is a part of the city, a microcosm even. Yes there are some extraordinary wealthy people who live here, a lot disposable income, but a lot of the people I know are renters, and many people take the TTC. Especially given my current employment situation, Timmy's is exactly what I need right now. And I doubt I'm alone. Management are you listening?
Gotta agree with you, the exterior is awfully bland, even for Tim's standards. At least Starbucks had the decency to fit into the area by simply inhabiting the building and not going overboard with an over-the-top luxe reno right out of the gate. It's not like Tim Horton's doesn't know how to blend into a neighbourhood, look at the decent job they did of their location in the Winchester Hotel on Parliament. Love it or hate it, at least they still tried. There's no evidence of that here.
Imac: I agree with you that this area needs more help, I think your screed on hipsterism is irrelevant. That stretch of Queen is already lost and it won't be long until Dufferin to Spadina looks much the same as Spadina to University. Save your strength for a battle you can win, like keeping areas such as Parkdale and Bloorcourt awesome with smart, community-led revitalization.
My concern about Tim's is not that they're on Queen West (which, what the hell, why not...people like the stuff), but rather it's a bit of an unfortunate location. Much like what happened the Tim's location at College and Spadina, it's fast going to be a place for layabouts to layabout. Starbucks (and Second Cup further east) don't have the same problem because they sell a more upmarket product. I bet you this location has CONSTANT problems with homeless, street punks, drunks etc. Sure, those folks need a place to hang as well, but it's going to spiral out of control and fast. Like the College/Spadina Tim's example, with so many vagrants hanging about, you the sense of being in a Tim's is quickly replaced by the creeping sense you've stepped into the old Coffee Time at Queen and Parliament.
A friend of mine explained it to me once and it really opened my eyes. In a nutshell:
1) a poor area of the city is home to low-income families and mom-and-pop stores; the rental prices for both residential and commercial properties are bargain basement
2) the boho-class starts filtering in slowly, taking advantage of the low rents to open art studios, galleries, funky little joints that couldn't survive in a higher class 'hood
3) hipsters catch on, and start to act like it was their doing all along and infiltrate the area; rents go up
4) because the hipsters have money (even though they pretend not to, cause, you know, it's cool to be a poor emo hipster, woe is them), the retail industry takes notice and things like Starbucks, Tim's and the Gap start to appear to get as much of said money as they can, with no regard for how it will affect the neighbourhood; the rents start to go up even more as the area grows economically
5) everyday torontonians clue in and start moving to the new hot spot; rents go up again; eventually the poor people who reside in the neighboorhood can't afford to live there any more and get pushed even further afield
6) affordable commercial and housing units reach 100% capacity, but corporate greed is never sated so the monstrous condo buildings and big chains like FailMart and Home Despot start replacing huge swathes of older family-owned businesses and homes
7) the poor have been shoved into such a tiny pigeon hole that things start to boil over - crime goes up, neighbourhood pride hits rock bottom and foreclosures of homes and businesses start the process all over again; when was the last time you walked down Jameson? What do you think it will look like in 5 or 10 years?
We as a people have a duty to take better care of this city, especially the well off. Those that say "well, it doesn't affect me - why should I worry" need to wake up and realize that the time of looking out just for yourself is over and no one is safe anymore. We need to start doing a lot more to help each other out, instead of helping ourselves to the biggest piece of pie.
People should care about our city more. But money and greed rules. That's human nature unfortunately.
I think that Tim Hortons can be good for the communities they are in. The location will do well simply because of all the condo construction in the area, and the social service offered across the street.
If I am ever there in line ordering a coffee, I'll just be thinking "Remember that time when your best friend slipped and fell in puke in this exact spot? That was awesome."
I do try to frequent the indie places when I can (I'm not a big coffee purchaser in general, find it a waste) but it doesn't really bother me that Tim's is moving in. The area may have a lot of hipsters shops and residents, but that's not all it is...there are families that have lived on Adelaide and Richmond for several years, young families living in condos, people who pass by Tim's on their way to work or while waiting for the streetcar every day...basically all ages, colours and classes live there and walk by, from what I've seen.
I wish more people would frequent the indie places too but I realize that only a place like Tim's or Starbucks can keep up with the demands during rush hour. And it also gives people a choice...$1 for a crappy cup of Tim's or spend a little more if you want to. If it's not supported by the community, then it will fail, end of story. I do agree though that it's likely to become a hangout for the local homeless...don't know if I want to see what it looks like at 3am, and I kinda fear for any young female employees there by themselves. We'll see what happens.
And I don't think the Queens Head chose to move out, I believe they were evicted.
The reason Tim Horton's doesn't fit your model, though, is that it isn't high-end. Tim Horton's is a place where you can get an affordable cup of coffee and feel comfortable being there even if you're not wearing this season's hottest look. That's why Mick is upset - oh no, now the poors will have somewhere to hang out.
Don't worry hipsters, you can still pay $4 for a latte at Niche across the street.
I would bawl you out for such a nasty comment, but having formerly lived (9 years!) within a turd's toss of that corner, and having had my stoop pooped on by the colourful people who hang out there, I'll let it go.
Ever seen the arsenal of baseball bats stashed behind the counter at Super Queen? I wonder if Tim's will do the same.
I'll start:
Big Bop
Sketchy natives on the northwest corner
Squeegee kids that were banished from Montreal
The Basement and its clientel
Starbucks
Pizza Pizza
LCBO
Beer Store
etc.
If anything, at least this will cater to the hundreds of commuters that stand at the corner every day and the thousands that just pass through the area. None of the "locally-owned"* places along that strip that serve coffee can really boast speedy service or commuter-friendly prices, let alone both.
* - people have seemed to kick the point about Tim's affecting the "small business owners" and other "locally-owned businesses" around on the few blogs in which I've seen discussions about this store. the truth is that Tim Hortons locations are franchised, locally-owned, small businesses. they just happen to conform to a national corporate standard.
PS - I'm not a fan of Tim Hortons, but I'm a fan of progress. That section of queen west has been stuck in an ever-deepening rut since the hipsters packed up shop and headed further west (kinda like locusts, they infest, destroy and move on)
and xofer wheres the LC?
OH RIGHT THE AREA DOESNT HAVE ONE!
To Zed: Sure, all this will be 'old news' tomorrow, but you miss the whole point of what's happening here. Torontoians at one time could rightfully be accused of having their heads in the asses, complaining for complaint's sake (kinda like what you're doing now). But now I think they carp because they care. That people give a shit enough to spark vigorous debate is precisely why your comment is clutter on the page.
Hipsters are not to blame for Tim Horton's, Starbucks, Home Depot, or 1.7 million dollar lofts. The cultural shift on Queen St. has been driving steadily west for at least a good 10 - 15 years now, well before any resurgence of the attitude or use of the word and/or shutter shades. The fact that you people are jumping all over that stupid word shows how clueless you are to the street's actual cultural change.
It's neither good nor bad. It just is. When something doesn't evolve it faces extinction, and all of the artists and merchants in that area worth a damn have already done so, so pick up and chase them elsewhere.
Actually, it's too bad we couldn't have gotten something just slightly "alternative", like a Baker's Dozen Donuts; ever gone in one and insisted that there's actually 13 in a baker's dozen and they still owe you one more, to the confusion of the immigrant counter person? Absolutely hilarious...
And yes, I know, "hipster" is a reductive term that's already gotten old, but I can't think of any more appropriate term.
The media is too centralised. We need more blogto and similar and we need them doing journalism.
People will always blog.
People will always build fucking Tim's somewhere.
Otherwise - what's with all this pent-up aggression against 'hipsters'. There seems to be broad generalizations of these people, which I think is ridiculous. It's like calling all teenagers troublemakers - it doesn't make sense, and really doesn't make for a compelling argument for or against a timmies.
I think the real issue here is more to do with what other local businesses this will push out - there are actually quite a few coffee shops along queen which aren't used by 'hipsters' , which are cheap, and locally run. I can think of quite a few near queen and ossington, and I'm sure there's quite a few near queen and bathurst as well. In a few years - there will be more timmies and less selection. I really don't think it's a matter of snobbery, people who are against timmies moving in, are against reducing the diversity of our lives. Very few people can compete with the prices and marketing of a corporation like timmies.
There are actually places that value diversity - and don't accept giant corporations moving in - and there prices are still cheap, and the food is usually far above the sub-standard shit they serve at tim hortons. Anyone who's visited Italy will know the quality of the cafes there are amazing - they are all independently owned - and you can actually have a relationship with the person behind the counter. I work at young and bloor right now - and the problem with the area is there is very little diversity left, most has been eaten up by chains like timmies. It's actually really difficult to get a decent lunch with decent ingredients - without paying a fortune for it. It doesn't need to be this way - if we left protections for the little guys - we might actually have places to get homemade meals, for a reasonable price, and be able to know the guy behind the counter actually cares about your food.
Allow me to sound off... there's always a young, affluent, trend-conscious generation that is looked down on by those around them. We had hippies, we had punks, we had slackers, now we have hipsters. What do they have in common? They're all groups of young adults eager to display their individuality and non-materialism by throwing money at whatever silly fad comes their way. Do I have to point out the obvious contradiction inherent in such a lifestyle?
It gets a little annoying when you walk around Queen West and you see everyone wearing the same clothes. Remember a few years ago when it was de rigeur to wear a parka in the winter? Now it's the ubiquitous pea-coat. These are the people who are proud of their individual style, and yet they're all in uniform. And if I want to go shopping along Queen West - forget it, I can't afford the prices at those upscale boutiques. I can't even afford the schnitzel at Prague deli since they renovated and upped their prices to fit in better with their bourgie neighbours. So when people get upset that an affordable coffeeshop is moving in to their "hip" neighbourhood and ruining everything - well, I think that's a bit silly. Especially since Queen West is just one big outdoor shopping mall anyway. How come no one got upset when American Apparel moved in a little further east of there, or Urban Whatitsface? Those are big faceless chains, too, you know? Is it because they cater to people with more money?
re: the food at Tim's - it's certainly not substandard. It's way better than the Pita Pit next door or the disgusting Pizza Pizza next to that. Thing is, even though I hate the Pita Pit and Pizza Pizza, I don't mind that they're there. I get my pizza at Pizzaiolo's and my falafels at Ali Baba's, but it doesn't bother me if other people enjoy eating crap. As far as chains go, Tim's ain't bad - certainly better than Coffee Time, and I don't know of anywhere else in the area to get a multigrain bagel with cream cheese. So why all the hate?
weenuk, doboscobe
Poverty and substance abuse come in all colours. The corner of Queen/Bathurst and it's crowd of homeless people aren't exclusive to First Nations people.
There's already a Starbucks, Pizza Pizza, Beer Store and a Shoppers Drug Mart all the Block of Queen and Bathurst. And you think Tim Hortons is out of Place?
In the late 1990s, the term became a blanket description for middle class young people associated with alternative culture, particularly alternative music, independent rock, independent film and a lifestyle revolving around thrift store shopping, eating organic, locally grown, vegetarian, and/or vegan food, drinking local beer (or even brewing their own), listening to public radio, riding fixed-gear bicycles, and reading magazines like Vice and Clash and websites like Pitchfork. Robert Lanham's satirical The Hipster Handbook described hipsters as young people with "... mop-top haircuts, swinging retro pocketbooks, talking on cell phones, smoking European cigarettes,... strutting in platform shoes with a biography of Che Guevara sticking out of their bags." Hipsters are considered apathetic, pretentious, and self-entitled by other, often marginalized sectors of society they live amongst, including previous generations of bohemian and/or "counter-culture" artists and thinkers as well as poor neighborhoods of color.
any's i totally got to get to the cleaners to pick up my skinny jeans before 'shake a tail feather' tonight. toodles.
's far as i can tell a 'hipster' is somebody that hangs out on ossington and knows who the stooges are. ain't nothing wrong with that. excluding that lose-ster who wrote the wiki entry about hipsters. now i have to spend the weekend editing the 'hipster' wiki entry - my mom talks on a cell phone, and pitchfork are boring idiot shit-tard bandwagon knobs. i assure you neither are hip but i love my mom.
do people who rent in the rat infested queen west apartments consider themselves hipsters? or are the hipsters the crack addicts in those alleys, or the hip mental patients who hang out at the salvation army. or are they the resident homeless who drop deuces on the store front entrance ways, i'm not sure. maybe it's the drunken natives who hang around the "art fence" by the "meeting place". is it the old hunched over chinese bottle collectors? is it the German Sheppards or the skids they are chained to?
i really can't decide. i think i will ponder that over a double double and a tim bit.
And by what standards is this an "art/design" community? Graffiti? Stupid haircuts, and kids from the burbs who pretend to be homeless so they can feel "ethnic and real"? This community is a dump, the politicians have long long ago abandoned it to the street kids and drug dealers,a nd the only artistic statement made regularly is the above mentioned shitting in the doorways.
I'll be in line opening day for a Boston Cream and a large regular
If it can't operate as a 24 hour coffee shop, at least on the weekends then it will not survive into the summer.
The first weekend it opened it was 24 hours and it was packed all night.
Since then, everytime i walk by, be it 5:45 a.m or 11 pm.
There are over 20 bars in this nieghbourhood all fairly busy all night throughout the week.
They are missing out on Thousands of dollars in revenue every weekend.
if it's about losers & homeless people.
Just KICK THEM OUT , isn't the 20 minute seating applied to everyone.?