TTC Tickets No Good Anymore

Honestly, I usually use tickets because they're easier to keep track of. I switched to tokens about a month ago, and I would not say that I've been horribly inconvenienced by it, although it does get a bit annoying to have to sift through my wallet's change purse every time I want to take the TTC.

those tokens are the worst designs, sometimes people slip in a dime and the ticket collectors never notice because they're too busy talking to someone or not paying attention. its also easy to lose track of as illu mentioned above. but I use a metropass anyways.

Sad to say but the longer they wait to install a modern fare system like the ones in New York and Japan, the more money they will lose. It would be wise for them to take the hit now and install all the necessary systems unless they enjoy being ripped off.

BTW, the tokens are one of the easiest things to counterfeit. Anyone hear about the penny and scissors trick? I took the subway for free for years.

If I was one of the candidates up for election, I would increase the GST by 1% but make that go directly to specifics like public transit, health care, education, environment, etc. No one enjoys an increase in taxes but this is basically the only way we can afford to pay for the things listed above.

So riders are now funding an arms race, instead of funding service improvements; thanks yellowman et al.

@yellowman: unrepentant thievery is a great way to express your inner sociopath. Try living honestly; smugness is one hell of a drug.

FWIW: 100% of the 4 stores near my work were selling fake tickets. They have permanently lost one customer.

@ yellowman

Shame on you for stealing from our publicly funded transit system, for years no less.

"those tokens are the worst designs, sometimes people slip in a dime and the ticket collectors never notice because they're too busy talking to someone or not paying attention. its also easy to lose track of as illu mentioned above. but I use a metropass anyways."

Pigcat, I have seen many people caught trying to pull stuff like that. I'm sure they get away with it much of the time, but they still take the risk they'll be caught. From my understanding, the fake tickets were completely indistinguishable from the real ones. That makes it easier for the more honest people (ie, those who are more afraid of being caught) to get away with it.

There will always be those who abuse the system, such as yellowman. The least the TTC can do is discourage the honest/more timid people from doing the same.

I've always thought about how easy it would be to fake a metropass. You could get it close enough so the ticket collector wouldn't notice with their quick glance as you pass by. You'd just have to be okay with not being able to use the automatic entrances.

That was, until last week. My metropass had been demagnetized for whatever reason two weeks ago. So, as a result, I had been forced to avoid the automatic entrances. After a week of showing the collector my card I was stopped by an undercover TTCPD officer who I had to hand over my card for examination. That was enough to encourage me to continue to be honest when paying my fare.

Paper tickets were a joke and should have been done away with years ago.

Wait - TOKENS are a joke and should have been done away with years ago.

Yes, definitely Toronto the lagger should take the hit and install a new fare system.

A city this size with no proper downtown link to the airport. Hmmm- the TTC is full of jokes like this.

Why can't they just have oyster cards or he passes like they have in Italy ( i am assuming the rest of europe aswell)

Pay for the amount of time you want from a machine, a paper card comes out with a magnetic strip and you use it until it expires.

The TTC is really bush league when it comes to this kind of stuff. (how about getting cell signals in the tunnels like they have in Europe aswell!)

You can't use the "Well the TTC has a union and stuff gets done slowly becuase of it" excuse. The public transit in Europe/Quebec has massive unions and they still adopt technology.

Why is the TTC so damn slow on things?

A counterfeit free TTC (relatively) would require significant changes to the TTC infrastructure. I'm all for it, but good luck getting someone to fund the changes -now- even if it means lower operating costs -later-.

What the TTC alone would have to modify:

-A bus fleet of over 2,000
-Streetcars totalling 250
-69 Stations (With 6 more coming), many with multiple entry points
-In addtion to an unknown amount of other infrastructure (card readers/dispensers at every station and authorized retailers, networks of computers and servers to handle all the information, signage, advertising the change and other related switch over costs, etc, etc)

I travel back and forth between Markham and Toronto daily. I would love to see a unified smart card, but ONLY if it can be paid for without raising ticket prices.

Apparently it isn't common knowledge yet that an region wide integrated fare-card system is already in development. The system is already in use by a small group of GO and Mississauga riders. You can see the scanners at Union Station subway entrances.

The estimated cost for implementing it at the TTC is $300 million.

http://www.prestocard.ca

Is that $300 Million paid for? Or is it one of those projects that sits in the early stages, never getting further because nobody is willing to pony up the cash?

If the TTC had ever opted to use tickets with the magnetic strip in them similar to the ones being used in Montreal, chances are this counterfeiting incident would have been less likely to happen.
Relying on decades old methods, standards and equipment just seems to be an integral part of "the Better Way".

"Rick Ducharme, the TTC's general manager, said in late 2004 that the system was losing about $7 million a year to fraud ??" about a third of that because of fake tickets and tokens. Ducharme said that since 2003 the TTC had laid about 450 criminal and provincial charges against people using phony tickets. "

So at $300 Million for the Presto Card Solution, it would take the TTC 40+ years (assuming the Presto Card eliminated all forms of fraud) to make that money back.

The TTC isn't stupid (believe it or not). It all has to do with cost effectiveness. Any solution that costs more than it will prevent being lost won't be used. Plain and simple.

The Presto Card isn't being created to prevent fraud. It's being created to increase ridership and lower costs across the board. This will make the project worth it (if someone chooses to fund it). The fact it will save on counterfeiting is a side note.

Getting rid of tickets and switching soley to tokens not only saves money in combating fraud, but also saves money in producing paper tickets (similar to why the loonie and twonie were created). Tokens are more cost effective as they are reused despite them costing more to make.

"Getting rid of tickets and switching soley to tokens not only saves money in combating fraud, but also saves money in producing paper tickets (similar to why the loonie and twonie were created). Tokens are more cost effective as they are reused despite them costing more to make."

Interestingly, a blurb in the 2009 proposed TTC operating budget notes that 6 new employees will be hired because of the eliminaton of adult tickets. I guess the heavier tokens require more personell to collect and distribute them.

Two other notes:
1) The budget also forecasts "$3-4 million" of losses from fraud being eliminated by the ticket change, or about half what Rick Ducharme is quoted as saying.

2)The $300 million is for Preto Cards pretty simplistic implementation. If we start a fare by distance scheme, the rate bill will probably go up a lot as we have all sorts of equipment and IT infrastructure and software to implement that can keep track of where you exit the system, not just where you enter!

you all want a more modern system, but I gotta tell you that the transition period required to get that shit in place is a fucking nightmare. Montreal's going through it currently, and it couldn't be any more confusing and anti-tourist.

Also, the TTC is not actually eliminating tickets as many seem to think. Children and seniors' tickets will still be available, and we all know that the 65+ set are the biggest thieves on the planet.

Ry-Tron. I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of fraud in exchange for not having to wait in line behind an elderly lady trying to fish a tiny subway token out of a garbage bag-sized change purse filled with pennies and Werther's.

Well, look at the bright side. By delaying so long through incompetence or inaction or plain ineptitude, Toronto gets to skip the magnetic-stripe-card generation and can now go straight to the next generation of RFID contactless payment. New York will take years if not decades to abandon the deeply-flawed Metropass, which is hard to use (being speed-sensitive) and does not have the ability to do some of the advanced tricks that contactless offers (using for other payments, replacement, etc.)

@ Ry-Tron & Ryan L: hahaha...i nearly spit out my werthers!

Ryan L: The awesome thing about tokens is that you can actually use them on all the turnstiles, unlike tickets or even the Metropass, which inexplicably always has only one accessible turnstile inside a station!

No waiting behind old ladies.

the more honest people (ie, those who are more afraid of being caught)

Seriously? That's your definition of "honest"?

Thanks for the heads-up on the Presto Card, Jonathan. It'll be interesting to see if and when this ever gets funded and properly implemented in Toronto.

I'm sure people will still find out ways to rip off the system. Creating easier ways to pay your fare taking "The Better Way" will likely translate to increased ridership. I'm looking forward to improvements in they system other than simply doing away with the adult TTC tickets.

What else would you suggest?