City
Morning Brew: May 1st, 2008
Photo: "red" by -stacey-, member of the blogTO Flickr pool.
Your Toronto morning news roundup for Thursday May 1st, 2008:
Smoking in a car when children are sharing the confined space within may soon become illegal in Ontario. Legislation has been introduced, but I suspect there may be some pressures from the stinky tobacco industry to curb it. This one will likely continue to spur heated "it's my right" and "that's junk science" debates.
Too much vodka, plenty of emotional aggitation, and a heart condition are my guesses. Early reports describe an unfortunate incident yesterday at Pearson airport. A man on board a flight from Moscow landed in Toronto dead after having been intoxicated, and having to be restrained by the flight crew. That's not a flight I'd want to be on - it makes a relentless, screaming baby seem like milk and honey.
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Stories like these hurt to hear about and are hard to write about. A bystander who intervened in an altercation, in an attempt to stop a man from stabbing a woman, has died. The initial victim is also dead, and the suspect was making an attempt on his own life when police effectively used a taser to apprehend him.
ATM banking continues to be target for fraudsters and despite years of training ATM users, some still get duped and lose their savings to thieves. CityNews reports on another recent arrest and takes the opportunity to pass on tips for safer ATM use.
Big trucks carrying really tall things can't fit under some low hanging things - like highway overpasses. Yesterday on highway 400 a big truck carrying a tall thing tried but failed to drive under an overpass, instead smashing into it. Serious enough damage forced the road to be closed while crews fixed the mess.
The Toronto Blue Jays are off to a rocky start to the season and are sitting in the cold, dark basement. Fans were hoping that this year would be different, but so far their hopes are only hopes and not reality. TFC! TFC!
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I'm a smoker and I really don't understand it.
Check out some of the argumemts that appear in the comments of the linked blogTO article. Some smokers are quick to call the health threat minimal and continue to smoke with kids present.
What if you're in a convertible with the top down? Will that be exempt? What if you put the baby seat in your motorbike's sidecar?
I actually left my card in the machine, someone found it while my account was still active, and they only took $20.
I don't plan on doing that again, but considering they could have stolen my rent money it seems like there are some decent people out there, even ones who are thieves.
Don't machines eject your card before they eject your money and receipt?
While we're at it, why don't we introduce legislation that makes it illegal for a pregnant woman to drink alcohol. How about legislation that prevents a pregnant woman from having a smoke? How about legislation that prevents any person from having a smoke within ten feet of a woman that is with-child?
Here's one - let's introduce legislation that says you can't ride a bicycle wearing bell-bottomed jeans.
I, and many people my age - grew up riding around in cars with parents who smoked. Unforunately, I survived long enough to see the world we now live in.
Toronto FC ONWARD!
Why dont we have laws against ... Drugs... OR minors smoking or drinking..
Laws like this in car smoking ban are good for society.
What every happened to personal responsibility?
When I was a kid, you could ride a bike without a helmet - but now it's illegal. While I agree that it's safer to ride a bike with a lid on, it sort of takes some of the fun and spontaneity out of being a kid, doesn't it?
The point is that there is way too much government interference these days. You have to let people make their own mistakes and deal with the consequences of those mistakes.
Certainly, there are far better was for lawmakers to spend their time.
I don't understand why we still have seatbelt blitzes/checks, since if you're still so stupid that you don't wear a seatbelt you deserve to die. Natural selection. But in that line of the police having to cover for our lack of intelligence, this car-smoking ban doesn't surprise me. If grown adults are going to act like children, they'll get treated like children.
Why don't we make it illegal to take our kids to the beach as well? While there, they may step on some broken glass or breathe in some of the polluted air of the Toronto waterfront.
Governments like to go around telling people they know what is safe and what isn't. They don't want people talking on the phone in the car, but they have no problem with people viewing the countless billboard advertisements while they drive 120km/h along the Gardiner Expressway.
Personal responsibility? Tell that to the child that is going to end up with Asthma because their parents smoke in the car while they are straped into their carseat.
Laws are also in place to ensure our society is healthy. I'm fully supportive of being allowed to do whatever you want, as long as 1) It has zero effect on the lives or wellbeing of others and 2) You forfeit your health care rights and entitlements to other tax funded services.
Trying to compare an issue to unrelated one is just avoiding the actual issue.
We are a bunch of pussies and we are teaching our kids to be the same way. We're telling future generations that no matter what - the government will find some way to make sure nothing bad ever happens to you.
I have two boys aged 13 and 11, neither of which has ever broken an arm. By the time I was 13, I had broken mine three times. My point? Kids are too sheltered and it just keeps getting worse.
Making things like this illegal are sending the wrong message.
The problem is that parents who smoke around their children don't take responsibility for their actions - their children do, in the form of diseases and death.
You'd have a case if you supported a law forcing parents who smoked around their children to sign a contract allowing themselves to be infected with asthma or lung cancer when their child develops the problems, and to be financially responsible for their child's healthcare for the rest of their lives (since these problems don't stop when they move out). That is taking personal responsibility. Until people like you get the balls to make such private contracts, it's the children who have to take responsibility for the acts of the parents. Of course, that's how they roll in the conservative and so-called "libertarian" camps: personal responsibility = let someone else suffer for my fuckups.
Maybe you should go break one of your son's arms. This will be good for all involved: it will help you because you can feel as though you made your son a man; it will help him because social services will take him away from a pussy like you.
My point is that we are so quick to gasp in horror if one of kids scrapes a knee. This is why the government feels like it has to stick its nose in everywhere, because people need to feel that security.
At my kids school, they aren't allowed to have snowball fights or even make a snowman because it might lead to a snowball fight and some kid might get hit in the eye and his blonde SUV driving mother will call the school and scream at whoever answers the phone (as soon as she gets home from pilates, that is) because her baby got hit in the face and she feels so guilty because he spends most of his time with a nanny anyway --- that she feels she must do something!!
If you have kids, you know what i'm talking about. If you don't - you should probably shut the fuck up.
There are useful laws, and there are laws that will never be enforced and are simply a waste of everyone's time.
I'm not sure I want my cops spending their time writing tickets to a guys smoking in cars while there are people out there trying to steal kids from playgrounds.
Just because murder exists doesn't give everyone the right to steal cars.
It is perfectly reasonable to outlaw something that negatively impacts society. It isn't just the child that's being killed (though that seems reason enough to ban it to me), it's the taxpayers being dinged because that kid is going to need more health care from all of the side effects that are associated with inhaling second hand smoke.
So in short, not only are parents who smoke with their kids in the car abusing their children, they're also being an unfair burden to the tax base.
So in short, not only are parents who smoke with their kids in the car abusing their children, they're also being an unfair burden to the tax base."
Typical cop-out comments ...
What about the parent who allows their kid to eat junk food and develop poor eating habits? Chances are, the kid will grow into an obese adult or have heart or other health problems. Taxpayers will have to pay for that person's care too. Maybe we should charge those parents with abuse, too?
Why doesn't are society just make smoking out and out illegal? I would support this, even though I am a smoker. Why don't we just make junk food illegal while we're at it? What about alcohol? How many families have been torn apart by booze? How many people have been abused because of it?
We could go on and on and on here.
The fact of the matter is that if the kid scrapes their knee or whatnot that's a part of life. Smoking with your kid in the car and they have no way of telling you to piss off and smoke elsewhere isn't a part of life. It's basically the parent being a major douchebag.
Were you never hit with a snowball as a child? Did you never take pleasure in nailing someone with a nice wet one?
We wonder why it is, when our kids our old enough that they are expected to go out into the world on their own - they have no idea what the fuck to do with themselves. Am I the only one who has noticed the increase in crimes being committed by teenagers?
I have taken plenty of slushy snowballs to the head and been on the receiving end of many a snow-job. It's all part of growing up. When it's over, we move on.
I'm not sure we need laws protecting us from snowballs.
You said: "What about the parent who allows their kid to eat junk food and develop poor eating habits? Chances are, the kid will grow into an obese adult or have heart or other health problems. Taxpayers will have to pay for that person's care too. Maybe we should charge those parents with abuse, too?"
Here's the difference: You can enjoy the odd chocolate bar or bag of chips without being obese or unhealthy. But there is absolutely no way you can have a cigarette without contributing to an early death.
And word to the wise, all that misogynistic language makes you sound like a dumb jock in the 80s.
Outside of colloquialisms aimed at making fun of you, I don't think anyone would intentionally call you wise...
Before you came to this thread, none of my comments were directed at any one individual.
The thing I like about blogTO is that it gives me a place to express my opinions and engage in lively debates with others of differing opinions. This is by far the most juvenile discussion I have ever been involved with and frankly, I would like it to be over.
I'm in the habit of expressing myself and I am receptive to others doing the same and I respect opinions that are different from my own.
I won't change my opinion - no matter how much of your vocabulary you throw at me.
When this topic was hot last year, Jim Watson said "the government doesn't legislate common sense" - I think he summed it up perfectly.
On the table at the same time was a proposal to introduce legislation that would require kids to wear helmets when tobogganing. I laughed when I heard that one too, and I have personally known people who have had siblings die in tobogganing accidents. (key word = accident)
The core issue here, to me anyway, is responsibility. Before we go out and start legislating everything - maybe we should try educating people about the consequences of their actions.
Driving drunk is illegal - but there are still organizations like Madd out there throwing statistics around, because the fact of the matter is people ignore laws.
Second-hand smoke is 23 times more toxic in a car than in a house. That fact alone, makes me not want to even think about smoking in my car when my kids are in there with their little undeveloped lungs. So, I don't.
More people need to know about these statistics. The government should spend its time educating people about the realities and the dangers of there actions. Believe it or not, there are people out there who will change there habits based on this - without having to be subjected to legislation.
The province ran ads discussing the dangers of second hand smoke to children. Obviously the the government thought that wasn't effective enough and decided to give offenders a wake up call.
Now if I understand your line of reasoning, outlawing murder is stupid because there are still people who commit murder. Are there any laws you think are appropriate?
And I don't think you understand my line of reasoning at all.
I give up. Go ahead and make the law. People will ignore it anyway - including police. The only time it will be enforced is when they have a "blitz" so they can prove to the public that they are actually doing something.
I agree with you.
I've considered your arguments and I hope you'll join me in calling for a repeal of the age of consent law. Not just the new one, but the old one too.
Adults need to be educated about the consequences of their actions. There are consequences that we must face when fucking cihldren. I was first fucked when I was 8 and I learned a thing or two about sex. It pisses me off that my children can't have the same experiences - parents, teachers, friends, everyone is so paranoid because as soon as they fuck my child they're scared that I'll start ranting and raving like a crazy person.
If fucking children is bad then we should educate adults and children about the consequences of it. But ultimately it is an issue of responsibility. If you're going to get a 12 year old girl pregnant, you need to stand up and be a father. If you're going to fuck an 8 year old boy, you need to understand that he might feel needy and awkward for a period of time. But he will learn about responsibility, and that's something sorely lacking in this day and age. Ultimately, the government has no right to interfere in these issues. They are best resolved between an adult and the child he fucks, as they can each best learn about responsibility without the government condemning their actions and treating someone as a "victim" in our pussy society.
I'm not sure why it is so important to you that I change my opinion, nor do I care.
It's not personal, you know ... it's just a friendly debate ... so get over yourself.
If you were right you could respond; you couldn't respond, so you're not right.
If there was something in that last diatribe of yours worthy of a response, believe me - I would be all over it.
But it seems like some kind of pity-fishing to me and it's way off topic, so i'll pass.
Surely that is a form of abuse. Moreover, I think most people would rather be sexually abused once as a child than spend a lifetime sucking air from an inhaler or die young.
Abuse takes many forms. Snowball throwing is not one of them, but smoking in cars with children is. If you believe the government is supposed to protect against abuse, then you support the smoking ban. Glad to have you on our team.
You can stand by your opinion all you want, as the ignorant typically do, and it won't make it any more appealing. Reason helps us discover truth, and reason shows that your opinion is a piece of shit.