TTC Union: the Propaganda Way

So... if the TTC is worth $12b, and they went on a 2 day illegal strike.. that means the union owes the City about $65.7 million. We accept cash only.

I don't know - i just think that you're screaming at the rain - for all the good it will do... every union that I have ever encountered is generally populated by a difficult and resentful bunch. I mean the whole definition of a union is a group used to defend people that are otherwise ambitionless. Why else become part of a work environment where you don't advance/succeed based on quality and can't be fired short of committing a crime? Unfortunately, many members of our society were not raised in an environment that nurtured values of compassion and dedication. They can be lazy and surly maybe - but certainly not evil, and can function minimally. There has to be somewhere for these folks to go to.

I love how the whole premise of the argument "What if there was no TTC?" has absolutely no grounding in reality. Seriously, has anyone ever proposed this.

Marilyn, you fail Rhetorical Logic 101 for your obvious use of a straw man fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man), so called because it's so damn easy to burn it to the ground.

It's worth screaming about because 1 million people need quality transit in Toronto, and the union is not serving those 1 million well at all.

Abolish the union. Hire new, qualified, ambitious people from top to bottom. Watch this city come alive.

you certainly have my support, if you can get a motion brought up in City Hall or whatever the appropriate authority is (hmm. destroying a union - that would be int'l news) - wouldn't that be a ruckus? I am just saying don't get your hopes up... and if all goes well, maybe hit at the teachers too (i like the posties though..)

Oh, and way to be charitable (proceeds from campaign T-shirt sales going to a hospital) while spreading the propaganda:

http://www.worthamillion.ca/index.asp?pid=15

well said!

streetcars idling for 10+ min while we wait for someone to show up for their shift!

SHORT TURNS!!!

no streetcars for 30 minutes and then two showing up back-to-back.

drivers stopping to pick up a coffee!!!

what a horribly inefficient system!!!

The obnoxious voice and pace of the narrator was what made my blood boil. Well, warmed it up a bit anyway.

The TTC union is a joke. On the Bloor and Yonge line I keep on seeing TTC employees working the gates with their feet up on the money bins - how pathetic. When was the last time you saw an employee of any business greet you with their feet up on a table or chair? I propose that everyone writes to these fools to let them how crappy their service is: atu113@wemovetoronto.ca

What would it take to abolish the union by legal means (other than time and money)? What if 900,000 of the 1 million riders signed a petition (a realistic possibility)?

I don't understand one statement in the presentation. There is the allegation that local businesses would close.
If travelling was such a hassle, wouldn't you want to shop locally instead of going downtown or to a mall? Moreover, wouldn't that help deter the growth of big-box stores?
Wouldn't there be a resurgence of locally owned services like dry cleaners, bookstores, restaurants and pubs?

I believe its silly to think that in 2008, there wouldn't be any pubic transit. I also believe that if this were actually true, a private corporation would come in and provide a better service with lower fares, not having to compensate for transit union members inflated wages and simply having the power to fire incompetent employees. To hell with the unions.

While I completely agree that this propaganda vid is complete bs, we must not forget that there is an important distinction that needs to be made between the union (grumpy workers, etc.) and the system itself. Jerrold, your ride "from south Etobicoke to north Scarborough" isn't going to be more efficient any time soon, even if we replaced every single TTC staff member with a non-unionized equivalent. The pathetic public transit infrastructure isn't the union's fault.

-phil

^^ Everything about the "study" is bullshit. Marilyn Churley should be ashamed to have her name on this (unless of course, the ATU paid her more than her ethics are worth).

Yeh - Toronto is not for the sensitive and humble -- annoyance begets passion begets anger begets anger begets... violence?
If another snowstorm hits then it won't matter if the TTC strike anyway.. nothing will be getting anywhere..

a private corporation? interesting. would that lead to the 40%+ routes that are weak/unprofitable being cut? No night service - very unprofitable. TTC streetcars - unprofitable. Handicap services - very unprofitable. Ticket prices for a necessary service - up, up ,up - profitable!

even though the hypothetical idea is ludicrously ridiculous, it really bothers me that the union would hold the city hostage with our transit system.

I say fire the whole lot, automate as many positions as possible (ticket collectors? who needs em? and montreal + NYC's trains only have one driver - not two.) so thats like 25% of the staff already.

i agree. private would be a disaster. but this union sure as hell isn't in the public's best interest!

dump the union, and treat these people like "normal" employees. it's not like they're elected officials or are particularly skilled. you won't want to work for these wages, fine, go find another job. you're not a good worker, fine, you're fired! HOW HARD IS THAT?!?

Good god, I used to vote for this woman. The NDP really like to show their lunatic side a lot these days. Likely why I can't bring myself to vote for them anymore.

Shame on you, Marilyn Churley. Toronto doesn't deserve you. This video, and its haunting music will haunt you next time you run for office.

I'd be unpleasant too if spent my days working in such cold echoey dark fluorescent robotic monotonous repetitive places, and dealing with teenagers. As well, I think being in a union you might change into a "them vs us" attitude. Anyone who is not a transit worker is the enemy?

One thing that baffles me is the argument that 30 per cent of the hypothetical $12 million the TTC saves the city is in "increased travel time for individuals."

Quite frankly, I find it hard to believe that the loss of the TTC would put enough additional cars on the road to more than triple driving times. I realize I'm just one person and everyone's experience will be different, but my travel time from home to work by car is 20 minutes. By TTC, it ranges from an hour to 90 minutes, depending on how long it takes for a bus to show up at Finch station (which, at the very least, gives me plenty of time to catch up on sleep, reading and leftover work.)

Good thing they played up the cost of driving and environmental impact in their propaganda video, because any claim that the TTC is faster or more convenient rings extremely hollow to this rider.

At least twice a week I get kicked off a street car on the way to or from work. Often the next street car will inevitably short turn, further delaying my trip. Then, in the next 20 minutes only one more street car will come, inevitably PACKED to the brim, with the driver getting annoyed on the mic saying "MOVE TO THE BACK!" when it's fucking packed already.

For a hundred and ten bucks a month, this service is bull fucking shit, and the main reason I ride my bike 7 months of the year. It does not surprise me AT ALL that transit employees are subject to being mistreated by passengers, considering the shitty treatment passengers get from transit employees.

I say "Thanks" about 80% of the time when I leave the streetcar. The other 20% I'm wishing that the driver get a suitably itchy STI.

The Video is silly propaganda, of course.

However, the tone of the many of the comments goes o'er the top the other way.

The very 'us vs them' attitude that some here accuse the union of having, is the attitude on display by many posters.

You are expecting people for whom you clearly have little or no respect, who you openly call lazy and incompetent to treat you nicely? You expect them to come to work smiling?

Perphaps some here should look in the mirror before calling someone else surly.

***

Of course some TTC workers are lazy, as is the case in many jobs, union and non-union.

But as everyone blathers on about replacing all the staff, keep in mind, the TTC can't hire enough people to drive its buses, the vast majority of applicants fail the rigourous driving and safety tests; and this despite the TTC publicly appealing for applicants and paying more than $22 an hour to start ($ 28 after five years).

To be sure, there should be more training/incentives for superior work ethic/politeness etc. However, those are very tough to do. For a moment, I challenge the complainers, how do you write contractual language and 'test' for people skills? Hire 'mystery shoppers?', its not something that's easily measurable.

Could the janitors be better supervised? Sure. How? Seriously, how many people should be paid to supervise? What's the auditing standard?

And do keep in mind the TTC has 35 day shift janitors in 70 subway/LRT stations. Not exactly a robust workforce.

That said, the TTC and its staff, can and must do better. But its helpful if people constructively criticize, rather than offer invective.

It's not just the union that needs a reality check. Adam Giambrone himself likes to describe how big the TTC is by saying how many people it employs THEN saying how many people it moves. The priorities are wrong. A culture shift is needed.

When are those million-dollar workers going to finish Fleet Street, by the way?

Jer: Not that being a public body has prevented the TTC from committing the same crimes.

Fares? Upped every year for the past several years.

Service? Cut on many routes (think back to the Mike Harris days) and deteriorating on others through sheer incompetence and mismanagement (hello, any east-west streetcar).

Accessibility issues? Don't forget it took a COURT ORDER for the TTC to consistently announce stops, and new elevators and escalators are being installed at a snail's pace while existing ones are constantly broken.

Found this on a forum:

"I've asked this before... why can't we SUE the union for disrupting our livelihood?

Maybe not me personally, but to all those people who rely on the TTC 100%.

The little people, students, multi-job-person, etc.

A single disruption in service and they get screwed in the job/school, so imagine a strike? Their livelihood, and their family (who relies on them) are all affected negatively, because they couldn't get to their class/exam/job/interview/appointment/etc. since the TTC wasn't running."

My bro subways it from Yonge/Bloor while I drive from Cawthra/Burnhamthorpe to meet/pick him up @ Union Station... guess who always makes it there first? ME.

How the hell can they claim the TTC is faster/more efficient if I can make it to Union from Mississauga in less time than my bro can from Yonge/Bloor?

@Kevin:

You can't truly believe that the outpouring of public disdain for the union is on the same level as the union's gripes with the customers they're paid to accomodate.

The TTC employees are accountable to us, paying customers who also pay their salaries. Their rights are protected under the auspices of the union, but our rights as paying customers of a service and as taxpayers contributing to transit infrastructure are not being served by the actions of the union.

I liked most of my teachers, I smile at my mail carrier, and the lady at my local LCBO is friendlier than she ought to be (that's a whole other story). Unions can do a lot of good. ATU Local 113 isn't, however.

@Kenny

re: "My bro subways it from Yonge/Bloor while I drive from Cawthra/Burnhamthorpe
to meet/pick him up @ Union Station... guess who always makes it there
first? ME."

I can't see this being "always" true at any time of the day/night.

TTC: Bloor/Yonge Station to Union should take 7mins in non-peak hours, and longer during peak (if you have to wait for 1 or 2 trains dues to crowding, maybe 15-20mins).

Driving: Cawthra/Burnhamthorpe to Union Station with no cars on the road would take 20mins. In peak traffic you'd be lucky to get there in 40 minutes.

http://www.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=1109371398121650967,43.645669,-79.380064&saddr=65+Front+St+W,+Toronto,+ON+M5J+1A1,+Canada+(Union+Station)&daddr=Cawthra+%26+Burnhamthorpe,+mississauga,+on&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=43.456576,-79.409702&sspn=0.703783,1.123352&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=12

If I were you, I'd be picking him up at Kipling station (unless you're not planning to return to Mississauga).

Visit the worthamillion.ca website and leave your feedback. Lets see if they post all the negative commentary they receive.

One more thing, i wonder if the TTC can sue the union for use of their trademarks and subway images. I doubt this falls under fair use. Anyone know?

Something tells me that if you post your comments to the union here:

http://worthamillion.ca/index.asp?pid=20

They won't appear here:

http://worthamillion.ca/index.asp?pid=42

I think it's interesting to see a former high profile member of the NDP essentially leading the fight against a very NDP city council.

Travel time to work by car? 30 Minutes.
Travel time to work by TTC? 2 Hours. Minimum.

Every day on my way home I arrive at Kipling Subway station's bus platform to the same crowd of about two full bus loads of people all waiting for the same bus. Sometimes, if I'm lucky, I can get there earlier to see the previous bus drive away.

Which was helpful, because I was able to use those times to time when the routes are scheduled.

The bus, which is listed as FS (Frequent Service, 8 minutes or less) comes about 20 minutes after the one I always miss. More often than not people are turned away because they can't fit everyone behind the white line. Sometimes as many as another half busload (and I'm sure the next bus ends up with the same problem).

The other end of my trip, northern Scarborough, I often see the bus driver leave his bus to go get a coffee or food. Sometimes he locks his bus, leaving people to wait out in the cold. Other times he leaves it open, allowing dozens of people to get on the bus without paying.

Occasionally he isn't back in time for his scheduled route, 10-20 minutes late, forcing the bus that has crept up behind him to try and get around him to pick up the dozens of people waiting for his return.

Now, I know I have dozens and dozens of stories about terrible TTC Employees. Everyone else has similar stories as well.

In any other industry, people wouldn't stand for it. For some reason we just accept it in this case.

I actually think that imagining scenarios without transit is a useful exercise, and that we need to understand them in order to assess future investment in our neglected system. The dark tone could have been interesting, but the closing of it totally takes away from the core message. It moves from providing insight to making a union pitch. Too bad. What if an independent filmnaker took the same concept and did a speculative future documentary vid? What would the response be?

That said, the amount of union-bashing in these comments is pretty shocking.

Some comments are always out of line, but Mark, the TTC union has lost our faith. I think it's a bad union. That's possible. I"m pro-union generally, and I want TTC employees to be treated fairly and have well paid secure jobs, but this union protects the awful ones who give the rest a bad name.

Indeed, we love transit, which is why the idea behind this video is fine (toronto needs transit) but the source makes it a shame. The TTC union is trying to scare Torontonians, just as they similarly shit on us during their wildcat strike. You do that, even lefty sympathy evaporates. This is one of the reasons the NDP are loosing people like me, their ideological support of crap.

I agree with a lot of what is being said here, but I think much of it is off-topic.
I am: 1) Angry at the ATU for running propaganda like this. 2) Spending so much to do it. 3) Upset that a relatively respected politician would write a report, claim that although the ATU paid for it, but that the report was still objective because they didn't involve themselves in the writing, and then praise the ATU by saying that they're worth $1M each. 4) Not so upset at the actual report. It can be a very useful source of information for pro-transit activists, and helps underscore transit's importance (which makes sense given Steve Munro and Franz Hartman were involved it it) (previous comments about bias aside).

@Kenny........I'm calling "bullshit". There's no way that you can get to Union station from Mississauga faster than your brother can on the TTC from Yonge/Bloor. Not even during peak hours. Peak hours on the TTC are the same (time) as on the road and everyone knows it takes 3 weeks and two days to get anywhere in Toronto by car during peak hours. Although the TTC is not always the most efficient way to get around, they win hands down in your example. As for the Union, they're nothing but a bunch of winers that like to stir trouble at every opportunity they get. They like to take take take and never give back.

It's still a bullshit "study" even to pro-transit people.

A pro-transit study would emphasize the emissions reduced/reduction in congestion/green space saved/benefits of running a good transit system, not ask us to imagine a hypothetical world without what we already have in place!

And on a side note:

How much does it piss you off that union president Bob Kinnear refuses to this day to apologize for the illegal strike he initiated in 2006?

Unions are bad. Period. They were useful back in the days of slavery and sweat shops, no need for them now. They protect the lazy workers while leaving the great ones out in the cold. I used to work for a unionized company, they forced me to pay union dues each week and never did a single thing for me. Where did all that money go? I paid them to keep the lazy asses next to me around for a lot longer than they should have been.

You think *that's* propaganda? Watch their TV ads. (The simple fact that they even have TV ads already prepared is concerning in itself)

http://www.worthamillion.ca/index.asp?pid=19

Eric "helps disabled people"... by driving a van.
Kim "comforts people on their long commutes"... by installing seats on vehicles.
Barbara "prevents tonnes of polluting emissions"... by driving a streetcar.

It makes it sounds like they're United Way volunteers or something.

Make sure you also enter their contest to win a Metropass (or propaganda campaign T-shirts!):

http://www.worthamillion.ca/index.asp?pid=2

Linda> Comments like yours are the ones out of line, and make the reaction against the TTC seems as ideological as the NDP's support. There is still a role for unions, and a need, but man, is a reform ever needed.

Those TV ads are not going to work to garner support for their side. Oh yeah? Every single citizen of Toronto has done good for other people in some way. Where's my TV ad?

It's called doing your job and being a decent human being.

And to the people who say to give the TTC workers slack because we'd be surly too if we had to deal with angry people/teenagers all day: if you don't like dealing with the public, then don't get a job where that is your duty. It's that simple and easy.

"Anyone that has cheerfully approached a TTC employee only to be scowled at knows what I mean. Taking the TTC can be a terrible experience. It's inefficient, dirty, and the image of the TTC worker overall is severely tarnished by the many miserable people who are members of the union and staff the system."

Last week, as i rode the subway from midtown to Lansdowne station, I all of a sudden had a gut wrenching realization that I didn't get a transfer at my station of departure in case the Lansdowne bus doesn't go into the station.. I've never been to Lansdowne station before.. there are no posting as to which subway stations have buses actually entering them. Well Lansdowne47 doesn't enter the station.
I approached the TTC attendant in his booth..slouching backwards, feet up on the counter, arms crossed, not willing to move an ounce! I approached from the paid side of the turnstile and asked if he could sign or initial or have a special transfer to give the bus driver so I could get on the bus. This Grumpy, overpaid, under ambitious "the world owes me 'cuz I work for the TTC" prick, wouldn't even move to speak to closer to the mic so i could hear him. The only thing he can say is "try explaining to the driver".

These people are so lucky they have the jobs and benefits that they do.
I think we should fire them all and rehire!!!
I for one would cross that picket line in a heart beat and take 1/2 of what they earn even without benefits.
Every 3 years it's the same BS.
85% of that union is a spoiled worker!
FIRE THEM ALL!

No doubt a culture of entitlement persists in the union, but at least partially to blame is a city council that coddles them and acquiesces to their demands. A much different response was warranted to the wildcat strike, but Miller and Co. are ideologically beholden to the union and were unable to offer much of a response. The culture won't change until the TTC is managed as it should be, as an arms length crown corp. or regulated private entity (all the issues raised above re: unprofitable routes, wheelchair service etc. not being in the interests of a private operator can be solved by empowering legislation that requires it). There is no reason that a committee of council should run an entity of this size and complexity, and the results speak for themselves. To use just one example, one gathers that you would not have such a publicity blitz pre-contract negotiation if the guys on the other end of the bargaining table weren't subject to political pressure by their constituents.

I don't know whose judgement is worse: the union for hiring Churley or Churley for associating with the union (I do believe she is seeking re-election/nomination, in which case this is a cheap ploy to gain support from her consituency, also a conflict of interest since they are likely a campaign donor) For starters, she's an doctrinare ideologue (which, as noted, casts doubt on any claims by the study), a poor communicator, narcissistic self-promoter - and, in this case, a partisan useful idiot.

That was a poorly thought-out pitch (one could similarly, and equally pointlessly, ask "What if there were no highways?" etc.) but this thread is an embarrassing display of snobbery and conservatism. Almost every single person commenting here has taken every gripe they have against the TTC as a system-- from its slowness to the fact that grumpy workers don't smile back at them-- and blamed the ATU.

As far as the calls to smash the union go, I'd love to see the city or TTC management try it, and not just for the excuse it would provide to miss work. A little bit of prolonged class war in Toronto would liven this city up quite a bit.

The situation is so bad, that I actually take notice when service is good. Shouldn't it be the other way around? But we're used to bad service so when we have a good experience it's like "wow, that was good".

Unions can/and do a lot of good for a lot of people, especially in Canada. However, unions are NOT a single entity and shouldn't be thought of as such in judgement.

That being said, ATU 113 should be ashamed of themselves for even entertaining the idea of this CNN-style fear mongering.

It's bothersome on both sides to see this attitude of 'us vs them'. The fact is that the TTC is grossly underfunded, this should be the only 'fact' the TTC should be communicating. This affects us all, riders and TTC workers. I've never understood why the TTC has never tried to garner public sympathy.

I've never been to Lansdowne station before.. there are no posting as to which subway stations have buses actually entering them.

Hernando - if you look at the maps on the subway, you'll see a 'T' in some of the stop circles. Those are the stops that require a transfer. That said, I remember how confusing the TTC was when I first moved here (not implying that you just moved here), so unless you pay close attention, it's very easy to miss.

what we need is an alternative private transit system that competes with ttc... i lived in hk for 20 yrs and have never heard of public transit workers going on strike ever! there are tons of options to go from one point to another efficiently...the good news is this is going to make downtown condos more valuable

It's so bloody inefficient. Why is there never any more than one token dispenser at subway entrances? When you enter any other metro system in the world you are confronted with at least 10 automated ticket/token machines. Make one guy in the booth an info-man only and give the other guy a mop.

I am one of the biggest transit geeks there ever was, but I have little love for the TTC. Surly workers, spotty service, dirty stations, dirty vehicles, leaky roofs, perpetually broken escalators, ever-rising prices... it's just completely angry-making. I mean, throw us a bone for crying out loud. I understand that you have very little money. I understand that it's hard keeping up with a growing population. What I don't understand is the sheer lack of common courtesy that seems to permeate every part of this operation. You get better service from the 14-year olds working at Burger King than you do from TTC workers.

Explain this to me...

If the TTC has such a hard time hiring new drivers, why is the union that represents them making things even more difficult by posting this as their first video link under the heading "So you wanna be a TTC bus driver?" on every page of the wemovetoronto.ca site?

Trying to remove the union or replace it would be next to impossible, even if the union is corrupt. If they want to shake the Union up a little though they could start contracting out some services.

Perhaps starting with custodial work as a trial to see if it would work. Chances are the services would improve for much less cost. Cleaner stations, garbage picked up more often.

Then move to contract out the non-rail related maintenance workers, such as those responsible for fixing broken doors, light bulbs, etc. Things like elevators are most likely already taken care of by outside companies.

Then the tough part. The TTC Drivers. Contract out the Blue Night Buses. This would be a good starting point for many reasons.

From there, if they could show that contracting out workers is a viable solution to shrinking budgets and has the possibility to improve service, they'd finally have a fighting chance against the union. They'd have to shape up or ship out.

The union would fight every step of the way of course, but with the right spin the city could get everyone on their side.

let her know how you feel! don't just bitch about it on the blog!

email: marilynchurley@npd.ca
phone: 416.690.6664

As encouraging as this all is, and as much as Bob Kinnear deserves all this, questions must be asked of all of you:

- How many of you have voted for David Miller, and twice?
- How many of you voted for Dalton McGuinty, and twice, or three times, in some cases?

Does the fact that the former is a pansy and the latter is a liar not explain why we have piss-poor transit? That they were re-elected with relative ease?

Remember, friends, weak cities elect weak leaders. I mean, attacking Bob Kinnear is necessary, and I'd happily lead a charge to do so, but, I don't know, how about electing a politician who actually has the guts to stand up to a union, maybe?

Does anyone know what TTC staff make compared to other transit agencies around the world? That's the report I want to see.

Salary disclosures of high paid TTC staff (under The Public Sector Salary Disclosure Act):

Of note:

- in 1996 there were 24 members earning $100k plus
- in 2006 there were 227 members earning $100k plus

- in 1996 the Chief General Manager made $144,365.74
- in 2006 the Chief General Manager made over $260,000

it's funny that they still only have 3 comments on their board...considering I've left a few. (I guess it's because they're not very nice.)

Clearly they're screening comments and only posting the ones that make their shit smell like roses.

ohhhh, the opening of that video boils my blood.
What built the TTC? Taxpayers money!
Now, we should be grateful that it's there?

Over the years I have seen the level of service hit new lows. If you try to crack a smile out of these people they will look at you like you are crazy. I hope that the fine people of this city do not tolerate this kind of ugly behavior from these ungrateful rats.

@ Jerrold & Lola...

Nope... I'm not BS'ing you. I usually pick him up on the weekends, so it's non-peak hours on a Sat/Sun, so there's no traffic for our respective routes. We leave our residences at the same time, I average 120 klicks on the QEW/Gardiner, while he walks to the Yonge/Bloor station from Church/Bloor then hops on the subway to go South. And each time we do that, I get there first. The closest interval may have been 3 mins between the 2 of us, but I would always be sitting out front first. Maybe I do a little YouTube video of it the next time.

More than likely, the majority of comments will be thmubs down, but how many do you think they'll actually publicize on their website?

@Kenny

Your brother must diddle daddle or walk sloooow or something (maybe he'd prefer that you wait for him than he wait for you, and he leaves 5mins later than you think he does). On a Saturday or Sunday Bloor/Church to Union shouldn't take 25+ mins.

So their "Transit Special Constables" make over $100K a year? For what? Hassling teenagers at Yonge/Bloor station?

And I saw quite a few "Transportation Specialist" at over $100K a year, some a few years in a row. While that sounds like a fancy way to say Bus Driver, I really hope none of them are getting that much a year. That would be absolutely ludicrous! No amount of overtime/vacation time could justify that level of pay for a bus driver.

What the fuck is wrong with you people?

TTC people have to sit in a chair all day getting harassed by assholes like you, then getting spit on and beaten by a totally different group of assholes.

I dislike the same aspects of the TTC and its staff that you do, but it's completely understandable.

Ultimately, though, I think you're all a bunch of hypocrites. On one post people complain that there's no security; in another, e.g. @K, you complain that their security force is overpaid. Here's a lesson in capitalism for you: supply and demand. If being a transit cop is dangerous and dirty, nobody wants to do it. So the city has to pay people more to make it happen. If they lowered the pay less qualified people would apply, security would fall, and there would be even more dangerous incidents.

To reiterate: what the fuck is wrong with you people?

Next time you see a worker slouching or out for a coffee, snap a photo and post it to the web. Let's start our own information campaign.

@Piero

You're pissed off that TTC workers have coffee or take breaks? Like you don't spend your days surfing for porn at work you white collar piece of shit.

l2not be such a fucking hypocrite

We all take breaks, we all drink coffee, none of us work 100% - but because people who get spat and pissed on all day want a break it becomes open season on them.

@Sean

"Over the years I have seen the level of service hit new lows." Could you give some examples? Are these unspecified events directly the fault of individual staffers, poor organization, poor planning - be specific.

"If you try to crack a smile out of these people they will look at you like you are crazy." You are completely crazy if you try to force strangers to smile. You're an asshole if you aggressively pursue this.

"I hope that the fine people of this city do not tolerate this kind of ugly behavior from these ungrateful rats."
The TTC operators and staff are members of this city too. It is exceptionally condescending of you to suggest that they should be grateful for the opportunity to be city employees - do you thank your boss for hiring you? Would you work in unsafe or poor conditions as a way of saying thank you? Finally, why is someone a "rat" for trying to find a safe working environment? Or for trying to make more money - fair wage or not? We live in a capitalist society, workers are entitled to try and make money as well.

@Ryan

"Trying to remove the union or replace it would be next to impossible, even if the union is corrupt."
Has any evidence been presented that even suggests the Union is corrupt? On the contrary, they seem to be looking out for the best interests of their members - that's what unions do.

"If they want to shake the Union up a little though they could start contracting out some services."
How would you react if you lost your job because your employer started outsourcing? No doubt you'd turn to your union.

"Perhaps starting with custodial work as a trial to see if it would work. Chances are the services would improve for much less cost. Cleaner stations, garbage picked up more often."
What evidence do you have to support this? In my experience when governments contract things out they get ripped off, and the public comes at them for contracting out in the first place.

"Then the tough part. The TTC Drivers. Contract out the Blue Night Buses. This would be a good starting point for many reasons."
Such as? It seems to me like it would drastically increase fares. And what would you get in return? At best a bus driver who smiles. At a cost of - paying a different company to operate busses, train staff, etc., all of which could be done in-house. This seems ridiculous.

In general outsourcing leads to poorer service, sometimes but not always at a lesser cost. Since the complaints seem to be about poor service, outsourcing will hardly be a solution.

@Mogo

"It's so bloody inefficient. Why is there never any more than one token dispenser at subway entrances?"
Because ticket prices would rise.

"When you enter any other metro system in the world you are confronted with at least 10 automated ticket/token machines."
I doubt this is true, and if it is then it's clearly waste - imagine the outcry if the City spent, say, $2 million dollars per station installing 10 ticket machines that would sit idle 99% of the time. People would say: "this is absurd!"

"Make one guy in the booth an info-man only and give the other guy a mop."
He already gives information. As for the mop, I don't suppose you'd be very happy if you showed up at work tomorrow and were handed a mop.

"You get better service from the 14-year olds working at Burger King than you do from TTC workers."
You treat the 14-year olds at Burger King better than you do the TTC workers.

@Linda

"Unions are bad. Period. They were useful back in the days of slavery and sweat shops, no need for them now."
You are one extremely stupid woman. There were no unions "in the days of slavery", and workers in sweatshops aren't allowed to unionize, because if they were they would no longer be sweatshops. So you clearly have absolutely no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

"They protect the lazy workers while leaving the great ones out in the cold."
This is clearly false. But even if the first phrase were true, how could it possibly make the second true? How would protecting the lazy entail the "leaving out in the cold" of the great ones? Explain yourself or STFUMF.

"I used to work for a unionized company, they forced me to pay union dues each week and never did a single thing for me."
Every dollar you earned was because the union negotiated a certain pay amount. If you thought the union was being run poorly you had the option to run for a union leadership role to change that - you obviously agreed with their strategy. Every vacation you took, or vacation dollar you earned, every coffee break you took, was because of them.

@Hernando

"Last week, as i rode the subway from midtown to Lansdowne station, I all of a sudden had a gut wrenching realization that I didn't get a transfer at my station of departure in case the Lansdowne bus doesn't go into the station.. I've never been to Lansdowne station before.. there are no posting as to which subway stations have buses actually entering them. Well Lansdowne47 doesn't enter the station.
I approached the TTC attendant in his booth..slouching backwards, feet up on the counter, arms crossed, not willing to move an ounce! I approached from the paid side of the turnstile and asked if he could sign or initial or have a special transfer to give the bus driver so I could get on the bus. This Grumpy, overpaid, under ambitious "the world owes me 'cuz I work for the TTC" prick, wouldn't even move to speak to closer to the mic so i could hear him. The only thing he can say is "try explaining to the driver"."

You're complaining that he didn't break the rules for you? Or that he wasn't standing at attention for his taxpaying master?

"I think we should fire them all and rehire!!!"
What a wonderful idea! Who will shoulder the billion dollars in retraining costs?

"I for one would cross that picket line in a heart beat and take 1/2 of what they earn even without benefits."
Like hell you would. Have you applied to the TTC currently? If you'd cross a picket line to earn 50% surely you'd work legimately for 100%. If you are not a current TTC employee, or an applicant, I call bullshit.

@Ryan L.

"Travel time to work by car? 30 Minutes.
Travel time to work by TTC? 2 Hours. Minimum.

Every day on my way home I arrive at Kipling Subway station's bus platform to the same crowd of about two full bus loads of people all waiting for the same bus. Sometimes, if I'm lucky, I can get there earlier to see the previous bus drive away."
So you're upset that.. the service is used? Or that you miss your bus? Would you prefer the bus sat there until you arrived, each and every day?

"The bus, which is listed as FS (Frequent Service, 8 minutes or less) comes about 20 minutes after the one I always miss. More often than not people are turned away because they can't fit everyone behind the white line. Sometimes as many as another half busload (and I'm sure the next bus ends up with the same problem)."
The TTC has recently addressed overcrowding. Furthermore, if it takes you 30 minutes to travel by car, and 2 hours by bus, I don't see why you take the bus at all - even enough to recount this story. I call bullshit.

"The other end of my trip, northern Scarborough, I often see the bus driver leave his bus to go get a coffee or food."
Bus drivers can't take breaks like other workers - i.e. 15 minutes every 4 hours, whatever - so when a bus is running ahead of schedule they can take a small break. This keeps everyone safe, and moreover is perfectly fair - why shouldn't he get a break?

"Sometimes he locks his bus, leaving people to wait out in the cold. Other times he leaves it open, allowing dozens of people to get on the bus without paying."
Do you even read the shit you write? You're criticizing him for both leaving the door open and for closing it. What would make you happy? If he sat there and starved?

"In any other industry, people wouldn't stand for it. For some reason we just accept it in this case."
People pay money to poison themselves with Tobacco, knowing that the companies lied to them for years and continue to do so. But you're right - people just won't stand for a bus driver who wants a cup of coffee! Outrageous!

@Jerrold

"You can't truly believe that the outpouring of public disdain for the union is on the same level as the union's gripes with the customers they're paid to accomodate."
They're not paid to accomodate anyone - they're paid to drive a bus, train, or streetcar safely.

"The TTC employees are accountable to us, paying customers who also pay their salaries."
This is false. They are accountable to their employer, the TTC, which is an entity that is accountable to the City of Toronto. The City is run by buerocrats who are accountable to elected officials, who are somewhat accountable to the taxpayers. This does not make them accountable to you in any way. If you ask a TTC employee to let you on for free, s/he must refuse. Why? Because s/he is not accountable to you.

"Their rights are protected under the auspices of the union, but our rights as paying customers of a service and as taxpayers contributing to transit infrastructure are not being served by the actions of the union."
You have no rights - you're a customer. When you walk into McDonalds the only rights you have are as a Canadian citizen, not to be discriminated against/etc. You have absolutely no right to any particular sort of treatment. And if the employees want to take job action have absolutely no claim against them. They are entitled to put their needs first, just as you put your needs first in your job.

@Jerrold
"What would it take to abolish the union by legal means (other than time and money)? What if 900,000 of the 1 million riders signed a petition (a realistic possibility)?"

What a stupid thing to say. How 'bout this: "what would it take to abolish religious freedom by legal means? What if 900,000 Canadians signed a petition against Islam?"

Freedom of association/etc. are cornerstones of democracy. Fundamental rights cannot be petitioned away.

And by A Grad Student, you mean A TTC Employee.

Having a job with the TTC is not a fundamental right you idiot. It's a fucking privilege. One the should be revoked if you don't do your job properly. Unions are there to stop that from happening. They are there to keep lazy ass people employed. If someone is as lazy and useless as most of the TTC employee, they fucking deserve to live on the street. Get a clue, dipshit.

@A Grad Student

Your wild stretching of the truth and skewed views on the duties and roles of the union are exactly what we have a problem with and the reason that I've posted and criticized this video here.

People who work in the public sector and are paid by our tax dollars should be accountable to taxpayers. A bus driver is not just paid to drive a bus. A bus driver is paid to drive a bus, and deal with and assist riders when needed (in a kind and courteous manner). Being represented by a union shouldn't mean that if you can press the gas and turn the wheel your job is 100% secure. The workers should still be required to serve customers with dignity and class - and this concept is obvious lost on you.

As someone that understands fully the fundamentals of unionism...

A Grad Student

more like a steward or rep - I call bullshit :P

IF you are either, I really hope it has nothing to do with TTC in any capacity. Your attitude, while obviously passionate, is terribly misplaced.

Customer service is a HUGE part of a TTC job. It's not a good thing for anyone if proper customer service training isn't being provided to employees. The other end of the spectrum is that irreverent workers should be disciplined, just like in any other industry on any other part of the PLANET.

RE: If the TTC has such a hard time hiring new drivers, why is the union that represents them making things even more difficult by posting this as their first video link under the heading "So you wanna be a TTC bus driver?" on every page of the wemovetoronto.ca site?

That's disturbing. How de-moralizing is that? That local really needs to perk up a bit and stop acting like their lives are the most horrible pieces of crap in the world.

ugh.

@Keven

Oh, but their daily lives are horrific on a global scale - they're more traumatized that soldiers dodging roadside bombs in Afghanistan!

Getting rid of the union is not the way, at least not for now.

I believe that the union should budge on the red tape in all aspects, including corprate involvement!!!!! Its a real shame when you see these big silver billboards with nothing on them to raise funds for the cash strapped TTC.

This isn't North Korea, we are allowed to have big buisiness sponser programs, advertise and even fund transit!

I submitted this.
Lets see if it gets posted.
Really- worth a million? Maybe a few of the workers are but what about the TTC driver who called me a FXXckin' idiot when I was new to the city and didn't know if I was facing north or south, or the guy who arrives late for his shift at Eglinton holding up the train for 5 minutes, or the streetcar drivers on King who were boasting about beating-up passengers while in and out of uniform, or the TTC employee in the DWA car that sexually harassed me, or the TTC employee that had a button that read "you're acting like I should give a shit" on his uniform? These guys are not worth a million and maybe we would have better morale amongst passengers and less fare hikes if you made sure that everyone of your staff really were worth the million instead of spending however much money on this ill-conceived campaign sure to raise the animosity between the TTC and the people of Toronto forced to use it.

Saying all that though. The wortha million website is a million times better than the TTC one.

Jerrold, you read that article and all you can do is make some snarky remark about TTC drivers vs soldiers in Afghanistan?

So you've been scowled at - so have I, it's no fun. But has a TTC driver spat at you? Threatened you? Assaulted you? Read that article again and try to see life from someone else's perspective.

Great work here, Jerrold, can't believe how hilarious the video is. Hey, when does blogTO get a "TTC" category instead of just filing these frequent posts under "city"? :)

@A Grad Student

"You're pissed off that TTC workers have coffee or take breaks? Like you don't spend your days surfing for porn at work you white collar piece of shit."

They take a 10 minute coffee break with a bus, which is typically already late, filled with 40 people who really want to get where they're going.

Actually, last time this happened to me, the driver was smugly wearing a Union jacket, not a TTC jacket, which explained a hell of a lot to me. I didn't even see him make eye contact with anyone who entered the bus.

Tell me. If you showed up for work, late, and then took a 10 minute break with your boss standing behind you waiting for something, AND this happened more than once, would you not be abruptly fired? (But hey, we can't fire these guys...)

@Allan

"But has a TTC driver spat at you? Threatened you? Assaulted you?"

I've had a red-faced screaming ticket booth guy threaten to "beat the shit out of me", and then stand up, walk over, and put his hand on the doorknob of his little booth. A very, very clear and open threat. (At which point I left.)

All over trying to use FIVE PENNIES in my payment for tokens.

@Jerrold
"Oh, but their daily lives are horrific on a global scale - they're more traumatized that soldiers dodging roadside bombs in Afghanistan!"
Here's a red herring if I ever saw one. The claim isn't that TTC operators claim "I am more traumatized than soldiers". Rather, the claim is that statistics show that they are more traumatized, in one particular way. Your beef here should not be with the TTC operators - they merely exhibit symptoms which psychologists diagnose and report to the province.

So are you making fun of medical professionals? Or the TTC operators for exhibiting symptoms? Presumably they have no more control over it than others who suffer from PTSD, and it is disingenuous of you to suggest otherwise. Another poorly written post. Less coffee breaks and more research time plz Jerrold, kthxbai.

@A TTC Employee (a.k.a A Grad Student)

The last time I checked, laziness wasn't in the D.S.M IV. Sitting back with your feet up and a bad attitude is not a symptom of PTSD, it's a symptom of laziness and uselessness.

Rape victims have PTSD, soldiers who have seen their friends and children blown up have PTSD. Fucking bus drivers who get spit on don't have PTSD. Unless a bus driver was SERIOUSLY assaulted or their life was SERIOUSLY threatened, they don't have PTSD, they're just whiners. Although you are right that it's not the drivers fault. It's the unions fault. Unions breed whiners with a delusional sense of entitlement.

So I'll tell you what A Grad Student, you go start a service business, say a restaurant, and then hire some staff. Now of course you're gonna get some rude customers, that's life. But after a couple years, and a bunch of rude customers, your employees decide to start being rude back. Not just to rude customers, but to every customer. They start showing up late, taking smoke breaks on the way to brining someone their food. And on top of that, the worse their attitude gets, the more raises they demand. What do you do? You fucking fire them, that's what!

The only difference is that there are hundreds of other restaurants for people to go to, so if you don't replace your staff, you're out of business. But there's only one TTC. Because of this fact, the drivers seem to be able to get away with anything, and that's bullshit.

HOW DARE THE UNION! THE TTC DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM. STOP HOLDING IT HOSTAGE TO SECURE YOUR BULLSHIT WAGE INCREASES.

Listen,
If I had a sweet gig like a ttc job, I'd totally be like grad student.
Who wouldn't want enough time during work hours to respond to every comment on this thread.

I have a friend that drives the bus for the TTC
- As for the coffee breaks he advised that this takes place when the bus is ahead of schedule.
- Secondly many of these guys/gals that drive do not have lunch breaks so they have to eat on the fly
- Finally if you are a driver for the bus and you have 2 accidents no matter how minor (if you are at fault) you will be suspended with out pay for a week.
- So its not all that easy for the bus drivers.

@A *cough* Grad Student

You've used a lot of pro-TTC worker rhetoric, so I'll just choose your responses to Ryan L., as those are likely most relevant to my own experiences.

"So you're upset that.. the service is used? Or that you miss your bus? Would you prefer the bus sat there until you arrived, each and every day?"

He's upset that the service promised is not delivered. This is not anti-Union so much as it is a general complaint with the TTC, which SEVERELY undermines one of the claims made in the Union's propaganda piece. Plain and simple, the TTC (particularly when it comes to buses and streetcars and the lengthy waits inherent in those modes of transit) takes considerably longer than driving.

"Furthermore, if it takes you 30 minutes to travel by car, and 2 hours by bus, I don't see why you take the bus at all - even enough to recount this story. I call bullshit."

There are actual reasons why someone would take transit, be it environmental concern, lack of access to a car or what have you. For me, the cost of a car is prohibitive when viewed in light of how often I would use it. Not everyone here is a "white collar piece of shit," as you so eloquently put it in another of your replies. If everyone had access to a car for roughly the same cost as riding the TTC, I guarantee ridership would plummet.

"Bus drivers can't take breaks like other workers - i.e. 15 minutes every 4 hours, whatever - so when a bus is running ahead of schedule they can take a small break. This keeps everyone safe, and moreover is perfectly fair - why shouldn't he get a break?"

On several occasions, I've waited in a bus at a station for 15 minutes while a driver has gone about his business, only to have him stop at a Tim Horton's for another 10 minute break five minutes after starting his route. Everyone should be entitled to breaks, yes, but in most jobs, if you're in the middle of something, whether it's serving a customer or chairing a meeting, you don't just stop and leave other people waiting on you.

Of course it would be lovely if we lived in a world where we could all work unsupervised and unaccountable, but most of us don't have that luxury. As TTC riders, we're the closest thing there is to a supervisor for most drivers. God forbid we be so fascistic as to criticize poor service on a blog.

And for the record, I seriously doubt that many of the commenters on this blog are nearly as rude to/violent with the drivers as you seem intent on believing. While incidents obviously do occur, in my own experience, they're the exception and not the rule, so don't go accusing anyone and everyone who's critical of the service of traumatizing the drivers.

I just got this in my email inbox and it made me chuckle out loud. Anyone want it?

>>>>

Subject: You've won a Worth a Million T-Shirt!
Body: Congratulations! You are one of today?s winners of a Worth a Million T-Shirt. Thank you for visiting our website. We?ll mail you your T-shirt soon.

Please reply to this email with the following information:

Name
Home Address
If Home Address is not in Toronto, please give us your Work Address in Toronto
Postal Code

Please allow up to three weeks for your T-shirt. If you have any questions, send them to this email address.

Thanks again
The Members of ATU Local 113.

>>>>

@A Grad Student

"I doubt this is true, and if it is then it's clearly waste - imagine the outcry if the City spent, say, $2 million dollars per station installing 10 ticket machines that would sit idle 99% of the time. People would say: "this is absurd!"

Dude. I am making general suggestions. Obviously you would only put as many as is needed for each station. The idea is to facilitate passenger entry.

"He already gives information. As for the mop, I don't suppose you'd be very happy if you showed up at work tomorrow and were handed a mop."

Yes, the booth man does give info. That's why the lines are so bloody long. If you can separate the ticket-buying/taking and the asking of questions in heavy traffic stations you will streamline the process considerably. In Hong Kong I've seen booths purely for informational purposes. You ask your questions there, then you purchase your ticket from one of many many machines. As for the mop thing... if you only need one Guy in a Booth thanks to new-found efficiencies, then put just one Guy in a Booth. The other guy can be given another job, or he can be laid off. Whatever. I mentioned mops because the stations are so dirty. Maybe I shouldn't be so flippant, but like many, I have a lot of issues with the TTC. We don't all have these same feelings for nothing.

"You treat the 14-year olds at Burger King better than you do the TTC workers."
You have no idea how I treat anyone, let alone BK or TTC employees.

I understand that any job where you have to deal with the general public is difficult. People can be stupid, spiteful, unreasonable. But if you are a professional, you suck it up and provide service with a smile. I have to do this every day. If I can do it, so can they. I don't care what job you have -- janitor, banker, doctor, pole dancer -- if you deal with people, you should treat them well. This is fundamental human interaction stuff. If you can't do this, find another line of work.

Go take a vacation, ride the subways in Frankfurt, Tokyo, Singapore... Go and see what relatively wondrous transit experiences are possible and just you try not to weep at the mess that is the TTC.

@blogTO folks: it'd be nice if there was some quoting mechanism here for the comments... :)

@apetimberlake

interesting info. as far as the lunch breaks go, this simply shows how miss managed the system is. if they can't figure out how to give people a lunch break, it's no wonder the system if falling apart...

"imagine the outcry if the City spent, say, $2 million dollars per station installing 10 ticket machines that would sit idle 99% of the time. People would say: "this is absurd!"

The only thing absurd is your estimate that a ticket machine costs $200,000.

@ Grad Student

Clearly, I didn't make myself clear and I apologize for that but really, there was no need for you to call me stupid. I see what kind of character you are. What I meant to say is that unions were good back then to "eradicate" slavery and sweatshops. Unions were formed to protect overworked and underpaid employees. Once that was accomplished, the union's vision got lost. Give an inch, take a mile. Furthermore, every break I took in my unionized environment was governed by law, not the union and every dollar I was paid was based on my performance. If I performed well, I was paid well for 6 months, if my performance declined, so did my pay....for another 6 months. This structure had nothing to do with the union, it was created by a non-unionized member ;-) In fact, I was paid more under this new structure than I was under the previous collective agreement. My vacation time was exactly as it is/was in most other non-unionized corporations. Again, the union did absolutely nothing for me. What they did do was take my money to protect the lazy asses who came into work late every single day and refused to work for their money. Anyone whose worked for a union and didn't get brain washed by them knows exactly what I'm talking about. We call them "union-workers" . A bunch of whining lazy assess. I take it you're a "union-worker", perhaps you're replying to everyone here during work hours?

Worst transit in the world. Hands down. For the cost, the amount of visibly wasted funds is astounding. I for one feel ashamed when tourists and foreigners are here and receive the impression that Toronto is a lazy, angry, depressed shit hole from the persona of our transit. Why should your employees be awarded for running a viable operation into the ground. I challenge them to allow private alternative transit to compete, it works in europe and HK, why not here.

"I'm not happy with the four-year term," explains TTC employee Cam Woodburn. "I'm not happy with the percentage points. Two per cent over four years is not acceptable. I agree with my union executive on that issue."

That was from Citynews.ca, and here's what ass-backward about this. The city's in a fiscal crisis, why is ANY city employee getting a raise?

Now before Grad Student goes wild on me, (and surely to God, if s/he was a grad student, s/he'd find more eloquent language, no?) the article does go on to describe safety issues in the contract. Let's give the union the benefit of the doubt and say that employees that get injured due to some idiot going off for no reason don't get full compensation on time off to recover, and none of this post-traumatic stress crap. That's not right. I would hope this gets rectified.

But a pay hike? Seriously? Sigh. Good ol pansy boy Miller.

@All
About half of you have, instead of reading and responding, tried to label me as a union supporter or a union member or a union steward or a TTC member. As if those labels - true or otherwise - affect the quality of my argument.

As a grad student I'm a member of a student union (not a real union, I don't think), and as a TA I'm a member of CUPE. I have not been in a union previously and I have no involvement in the union. Prior to being a TA, that is, during my undergraduate years and earlier, I worked in non-union retail. Like all employees in such a position, I was treated like garbage and exploited for cheap wages. I am not a TTC employee.

@James
My bad. But people would complain about any amount.

@Linda
Once again you are wrong - l2research. If you checked the time on my postings you'd see that I posted around 3-4am. Most people, myself included, do not work at that time.

@Trev
I use eloquent language to respond to eloquent arguments. The mob wrote trash, and I responded in kind. If a student tried to argue as poorly as the group has here I would be as obscene to them as I have been here - after all, I have a union to protect me from being fired! I'd be doing them a disservice by pretending that these sorts of arguments were anything other than the sort of baseless nonsense that appeals to the LCD.

As to your comment: "The city's in a fiscal crisis, why is ANY city employee getting a raise?"
There are two answers here. Like any business, the city needs to worry about retaining their employees. Each new hire costs lots of money. Competitive pay keeps costs down in the long-term. If employees in any city division are underpaid, they will go to the private sector. Then the quality of service will fall even lower as less-qualified applicants are recruited to fill their spots. In short, the less you pay them the more you have to complain about. This is the law of supply and demand - no amount of bickering or "yeah, but the TTC is *SO* bad" can change that. Economics 4 n00bs. Second, city employees are people. People in the private sector get wage increases, they get benefits, and they have rights. City workers are city citizens, and there's no reason why they should suffer because the city is in poor shape - any more than you should, that is.

@All
Basically the quality of arguments here is poor and amateurish. You take standalone experiences, made up bullshit, rumours, and speculation and turn it into vile criticism of individuals who make less and work harder than most of you. For example, Jerrold works in a cushy chair all day writing stuff out. I don't know what he makes, but I know he isn't spit on, pushed, harassed, or subject to angry postings and near death threats.

@A Grad Student: Interesting that you'd find groundless labelling a weakness in the arguments here. How, then, were you able to tell Piero that he's a white collar piece of shit that looks at porn at work just from his brief comment?

AGS, you might have a few valid points, but your shitty attitude -- the same shitty attitude that turns me off otherwise righteously angry people who seem to WANT lazy drivers spat on and punched -- is just completely outrageous.

I have a feeling that dealing with the endless tide of complete assholes I encounter every day while taking the TTC (solely because I have no other feasible option) would have turned even someone like Gandhi into a raving misanthrope. So I try to have sympathy for the employees because of that.

And if the TTC were adequately funded, we wouldn't have all of these service disruptions that make everyone so (justifiably) angry. Fewer angry people would equal fewer hostile interactions with transit workers and vice versa, resulting in a positive feedback loop for all concerned.

On the other hand, I have witnessed too many instances of TTC workers going well out of their way to make life worse than it has to be for riders to give them a full pass.

check out the woman who sits in the booth at 25 sheppard entrance, shes been there forever she makes no transactions only gives half ass directions. and i have a vid of her watching a dvd will post on youtube.

@A Grad Student:

"So you're upset that.. the service is used? Or that you miss your bus? Would you prefer the bus sat there until you arrived, each and every day?"

I'm upset that there clearly are scheduling problems in this supposed 'efficiently' run TTC. Sometimes the buses run nearly empty every 3 or 4 minutes during non peak times, and times like these, the buses run over capacity every 15-20 minutes during times when they need the extra buses (late rush hour in this case)

"The TTC has recently addressed overcrowding. Furthermore, if it takes you 30 minutes to travel by car, and 2 hours by bus, I don't see why you take the bus at all - even enough to recount this story. I call bullshit."

Not everyone can afford a car and the related expenses. I take the TTC Monday to Friday. 4 to 5 hours a day. Sadly, I am forced into a position where I have no other choice. I'm stuck with the TTC for the time being. Attempts to find an apartment that I can afford closer to where I work have failed. I know I'm not the only person in this situation. There are thousands and thousands of other low-income individuals and families that rely on the TTC as their only means of transportation. They are the ones that will really suffer if the TTC strikes. Not being able to afford alternate means of transportation means they will potentially miss work for the duration of the strike. Already being on a tight budget, missing work for a week could have dangerous financial consequences for them.

"Bus drivers can't take breaks like other workers - i.e. 15 minutes every 4 hours, whatever - so when a bus is running ahead of schedule they can take a small break. This keeps everyone safe, and moreover is perfectly fair - why shouldn't he get a break?"

My paragraphs are related.

"Do you even read the shit you write? You're criticizing him for both leaving the door open and for closing it. What would make you happy? If he sat there and starved?"

No, I'm saying he should take his breaks when its appropriate to do so, like everyone else in the world. The other side of his route, a mere 30 minutes away is the paid fare bus platform at the subway station. That would be the appropriate time to leave his bus. He/She should be able to wait the 30 minutes to leave their bus to use the washroom/get something to eat.

In the vast majority of jobs out there you don't get to put aside what you're doing just because you want a damn coffee. "I'm sorry, we'll have to postpone the meeting because I have to run down the street to get a coffee." No. In the real world you get your coffee when it is appropriate to do so.

For bus drivers on routes where paid fare zones don't exist, then I can understand leaving the bus for a few minutes to get a coffee during a break, but be back in time for your scheduled route!

Dear Mr/Ms Grad Student, perhaps your years of being in school without a real job has given you a skewed view of how a workplace is run. For the vast majority of people, they have to show up to their jobs on time, do their jobs and take their breaks at appropriate times.

quick update - the worthamillion site is now showing more comments, some pretty negative. My comment isn't up though.

I dislike TTC workers with great passion. In the fall of 2006 I moved to Toronto and I was a pleasant person, accustomed to public transit workers being friendly to you. I got the shock of my life when I started using TTC. Once when buying some tokens, I accidentally placed too much money under the glass. I innocently tried to take back some of the excess change and the scowly-faced, I-like-to-dye-my-hair-platinum-blonde SCREAMED at me "DON'T DO THAT, HOW DO I KNOW IT'S NOT MY MONEY" and snatched the money back right under my fingers. I was stunned and froze. I also heard her mutter "fuck" under her breath several times. To this day I wish i had snaked my arm under the glass and dug my fingernails into her skin.
TTC workers don't need more money, they need therapy.

RE: Oh, but their daily lives are horrific on a global scale - they're more traumatized that soldiers dodging roadside bombs in Afghanistan!

I see nothing in the article corroborating this claim, just people 'claiming' to have PTSD followed by taking up to 3 years off the job.

Also, with the help of a $446,000 research grant from the Workplace Safety & Insurance Board, the TTC, along with two Toronto hospitals, this month began a study of drivers who have suffered stress-related injuries. The TTC's chief safety officer says the study should help the commission understand how to best treat sufferers of post-traumatic stress disorder.

There are at least REAL studies that have looked at soldiers.

Papers claim a lot of thing (such as the TTC is lazy, see last years' Sun article)

but hey, you read it in the paper, it must be true. Sorry you're so niave.

"@All
...but I know he isn't spit on, pushed, harassed, or subject to angry postings and near death threats."

I am, but I don't complain about it, nor do I cry PTSD... why? Because I enjoy my job. It's simple really, if you hate your job and complain constantly about it, then move on and out! Why are you staying there to continue to get spit on a harassed?

Many of my coworkers are paid WAY less and work harder than TTC employees, but you don't see them crying about it, nor do you see them mistreat their customers as much as TTC employees do.

All I know is that the TTC is dirtier, in greater disrepair, less efficient, and ruder than the larger and busier transit systems of other cities I have experienced.

Whether the union is to blame or not, we deserve better.

One of the most commom attacks I see on these blogs and message forum about TTC workers, is they stop to get a coffee. How many of you work in a job where you get one break or none in eight hours. Most if not get a 30 minute lunch and maybe two 15 minute coffee breaks and use a washroom. Here are a couple of examples of TTC drivers daily schedule; Start at 4:44am to 9:45am then 10:11am to 1:18pm, that's 8 hours and 8 minutes in the seat with one 28 minute break. Or 5:41am to 2:46pm, with one 17 minute break while in the seat for 8 hours and 48 minutes. Or how about 9:50pm to 5:27am no break schedule with 7 hours and 37 minutes in the seat. Or how about the drivers who start work at 6:00am and finish at 6:30pm with 4 or 5 hours off in the middle of day for 8 hours pay, try doing things with your family and friends. This is just a small example of drivers day.

Yes not all the drivers nice, but also not all the patrons are. You should all try being a Transit driver for a day. They face a hundred people a day trying to cheap on the fare. They enforce the fare they are wrong and if they don't enforce the fare they are wrong.

If they don't talk to patrons they are rude. If they do talk to patrons someone complains they are talking to people it's a no win situation.

Using another city's public transit often makes me realize how ridiculous the TTC is.

My girlfriend lives and goes to school in Guelph. A small city with an understandably small Transit system.

A few things stand out.

1) Free Transit for University Students. Free or discounted transit is pretty common in just about every city with post secondary education. In Toronto however, while high school and elementary school students get discount, University students get nothing. The ones that need the financial break the most. Some Toronto post sec schools offer TTC Passes discounted by a whopping $10, however the supply is very limited (On TTC's end) and many students end up having to pay full price anyways.

2) Communication. When on the bus a few weeks ago I hear something unexpected on the radio system. "Stu, it's Garry. I accidentally passed a girl at a bus stop at Main and Front. I couldn't see her from behind the snowbank until it was too late. Can you make sure you pick her up on the way through and appologize for me?"

The TTC has serious communication issues. I typed up a large example of this...but I realized anyone who has ridden the TTC needs no examples.

3) The Friendliness of Staff

Guelph bus drivers are incredibly friendly. Besides the usaul examples, one recently stands out. While waiting for her bus to depart the University, my girlfriend witnessed the bus driver step out of his bus and in the snow nearby started building a snowman with a couple of the students waiting for a different bus, complete with bic pen lid nose and tim horton's coffee cup hat. When the time had come for his bus to depart, he cheerfully said goodbye to the students and joked that he would radio to the other bus and would tell them to hurry up.

Again, the TTC needs no examples.

so the ttc people working at the ticket booths apparently make $50k a year.. so i guess that's still underpaid?

@A Grad Student

"People in the private sector get wage increases, they get benefits, and they have rights. City workers are city citizens, and there's no reason why they should suffer because the city is in poor shape - any more than you should, that is."

Private sector workers don't get wage increases when their employers are in financial trouble. They get laid off. Private sector employees suffer MUCH more when their employers are in poor shape. How do you not realize this?

TTC employees should thank their lucky stars they're not in the private sector. And they should show it by providing a respectable level of customer service. They are in the service industry afterall.

agreed. Private sector employees don't have wage increase guarantee.. in fact, employers can change the benefit packages anytime they want...and they have to work overtime without extra pay to show they are ambitious in order to advance their career or just to keep employed... i don't think people are expecting ttc workers to do "extra", if they do what they are paid for, that's very good already..such as not slamming the door at you when you are trying to get on a bus...if they can all behave like they were during world youth week a few years ago, i dont think people would be so mad at them

Ryan -- it's the schools that negotiate free transit, far as I know. It'd be nice if post-sec students were given the opportunity for a fare discount through the TTC, but all of the schools I know of that get free Metropasses pay the school extra tuition fees for a discounted pass.

for those who say "the city's in a fiscal crisis" - you know what that's not very fair. The city could be in a fiscal crisis for the next 20 freakin years. The issue is fair wages, fair benefits, reasonable working conditions which include working hours and breaks consistent with a safety-critical job. With the RPI at 1.9%, a wage freeze is actually a pay cut. Unfortunately the union will probably cite Miller's "fake inflation rate" of about 3% which he used to spin the breach of his election promise with a 3.8% tax increase.

(Note - I think the 3.8% was justified but if Miller wants to be a strong mayor he needs to level with us rather than weasel to us)

For Peter W @1407 13 Mar - I'll make you a deal. I will write to my city councillor and ask him to lobby the TTC to ensure you get the same breaks as I do. All I ask in return is that you ask Bob Kinnear to have transit workers pay the same taxes, i.e. the OHIP tax, as I do.

@Jack 1926 Mar 13 - most of the time maybe $50k+benefits is overpayment, depends on your POV, but the guy whose booth was set on fire at Lawrence West might take a different view.

For all the bugle oil about how rotten the TTC union is, I'd like to see any of the more rabid of you out there try for just one shift to see what it is like driving a bus in this berg. Babysitting toddlers elicits less whining and snivelling than the average TTC customer. The bus is late? Driver's fault. Snow is flying? Driver's fault. Subways are 60 years old? Driver's fault. Do you detect a pattern here? This is what I hear every day I'm behind the wheel. If we walk, it's because the city, the company and the riding public asked for it. Walk to work for a week and perhaps you will gain an appreciation for you TTC. A little humility is in order so the public will not think that for $2.75, they can own my ass for the duration of their trip.
One day, just one day in my shoes would break most of you.
Have a nice walk. You all need the exercise.

we need another transit system to compete with the ttc.. so that if the ttc workers are not happy with their salary package, they can quit, and for commuters, we can have a choice to use another syster if we are not satisfied..they should learn from other big cities like hk

@Mike

Your attitude is exactly what's wrong with the TTC. You make it seem like you're doing us a favor by driving a bus, and we should be on our knees thanking you profusely.

For $2.75, we don't expect to "own your ass", all we expect is a proper level of customer service. For instance, using courteous language would be a start. Showing your paying riders a little respect and common decency would help as well.

What you don't understand, is that the public is your boss. That trivial little $2.75 is what keeps food on your table and a roof over your head. Without the riders, you don't have a job. If you hate your job so much that you need to act like an arrogant ass to your customers, then you need to find a new job. Or that is how it would be in the private sector anyways. Unfortunately for us, you have a union to protect your lazy ass.

So congratulations Mike. Your comments just validated all of our beliefs about the attitude of the drivers. You've just done more for our side than any of us could do ourselves. Thanks again!

@James
James, you obviously know nothing of what it is to be a TTC operator, or the boundless patientce required to tolerate the level of ignorance you display.
I love what I do. I've been a professional driver, (3 different commercial licence classifications and 3 spheres of experience at the TTC- subway, bus and WheelTrans)for 25 years. I have been on both sides of the windshield, James. Have you?
Has anyone ever come up to you, out of the blue and for no apparent reason and spit on you? It's happened to me four times. If I retaliate, I'd be fired, and the union would not protect me. Ask yourself, James. What would you do if someone spat on you? I can just imagine. Have you ever had a drunk driver turn in front of you, causing you to brake hard, injuring people in your vehichle avoiding the inevitable collision and then see them turn around and sue you for careless driving?
Until you experience what I have, your comments are invalid.
I am fully aware the public is my boss. That, however, does not give them the right to assault me for doing my job, which has happened to me six times in seven years. Until you sit where I do and witness for yourself how obnoxious and callous the public can be, then you will always come off sounding like the public: screaming at the rain.
Whenever anyone comes on my bus and treats me with respect,I will consider them a friend.
Board the bus and start cracking off at the lip from the word go;
Speak to the hand.

Nobody likes monopolies for a good reason. They invariably provide what the TTC delivers - mediocre service, inept management, bloated payrolls. 'Twas ever thus. Public service monopolies are the worst, of course, given how their unions run self-righteous propaganda campaigns, of which this ludicrous piece is a prime example, while fleecing the public purse shamelessly. Other city unions or PSAC are no different - looking out for their own interest while calling it the public interest.

But the TTC will always be a public service monopoly, and so the service it provides will always be this mediocre, its management will always be a political clown show, its union will always be noxious. There's little point in complaining about it, really.

@Mike

"Until you experience what I have, your comments are invalid"

You've never been the Prime Minister, so you have no right to criticize him. You've never been a customer service rep, so the next time you get screwed over by Bell, and the rep you talk to treats with no respect, you have no right to complain about that. Sarcasm aside, your logic is clearly flawed.

So you've been spat on 4 times Mike. In the same time period, how many customers (riders) have you had? Thousands? Tens of thousands? More? I'll guarantee you that the percentage of rude and obnoxious drivers is MUCH higher than the percentage of rude and obnoxious riders. But that is still irrelevant. In the service industry, you treat your customer with respect, or you quit. It's that simple. If the customer spits on you or assaults you, then file charges. But don't for a second think that being spat on 4 times, or being assaulted 6 times gives you the right to treat every rider like crap. It gives you right to file charges, and it gives you the right to quit. But if you cannot get over it and realize that that is just part of the job, then you should not be working as a driver. It doesn't matter how much you love your job, or how long you've worked at it. If you cannot show respect for your customers (which is part of what you're being paid to do), you should not be working at that job.

Fortunately for you (unfortunately for us), the union seems to think differently.

I'd give you my phone number James so you and I could meet if I wouldn't get a thousand calls from everyone who reads this blog. How can I make fool like you understand what it is like to perform my job? You obviously prefer to remain willfully ignorant, otherwise you wouldn't make idiotic statements like getting spit on is simply part of my job. It certainly is not. You try laying charges against some dickless pussy who spits on you as he dashes out the door.
I never, and I do mean NEVER, treat anyone like crap unless they do it to me first. True, I am in the service business. But in today's climate, putting up with simple minded, infantile pukes like you James, simply comes with the territory.
Resorting to name calling isn't my style, but you leave me with little choice. Your notion of customer service translates to this: if you don't like it, quit. That's great. But who would be left to drive the buses? You, James? I don't think you have the smarts to tackle anything more challenging than burger flipper, so I guess that leaves you out.
Anyway, I'm tired of sparring with an imbecile. If you think of anything intelligent to say, say it your dog.
At least you'll be on an equal footing.

I'm outta here.

@Mike

First of all, Ad Hominem, look it up.

Secondly, I really enjoyed how the bus driver is telling the engineer that "I don't think you have the smarts to tackle anything more challenging than burger flipper"

Until people stop spitting on bus drivers, it is part of the job. Getting assaulted and spit on is part of being a police officer, getting screamed at and called names is part of being a telemarketer, and picking up peoples smelly garbage is part of being a garbage man. If people in those professions can't handle it, they quit. Why is this so hard to understand Mike?

So Mike, if you quit who would be left drive the buses? Well the courteous drivers, and the new drivers they would hire of course! I'm come across many courteous and respectful drivers, and well as many people who are currently unemployed who would love a job with the TTC, and would show it by doing their job well, and with respect.

News flash Mike, you're not doing us any favors by driving a bus. You can and would be replaced in an instant, with someone who is much more qualified than you. Anyone can press a gas pedal and turn a wheel, but it takes a special type of person to be able to treat customer with respect, regardless of their personal feelings or past experiences. That is the type of driver the TTC needs. Not a bitter, and resentful one like you.

Attempting to subvert an argument by trying to turn the tables on one's opponent would be a waste of time in your case, James since your argument is not that, but merely a diatribe against bus drivers who for one reason or another have pissed you off at one time.

I'll not pusue an argument with one as woefully ignorant of the facts as you. I'll not try to defend myself against the closed minded. It's sort of like pounding my head on the wall, hoping the wall will begin to make sense.

This city is in steep decline. People like you speed it's demise. Toronto is becoming like the New York of the seventies: cynical, unyeilding and blind to it's own problems. Man's inhumanity to man increases while no on has the stones to face the problem head on. They just close their eyes and their minds and occupy space, not wishing to empathise with anything other than themselves.

We wall each other off until only the walls remain. We are oblivious to all that does not concern us, until nothing else matters but our own exisitance. We disregard all else.

We leave no room for the opinions of others and as a result, we all become irrelevant. Your argument means nothing to me and vise versa. We all think we know better and wind up knowing very little.

Pity.

@Mike

Maybe you should read my comments again, because I have actually outlined my argument very clearly. You, on the other hand, have had no solid argument whatsoever. On more than one occasion you've relied on Ad Hominem since you could not refute my arguments in any sensible way.

It's quite hilarious that you are citing ignorance and closed mindedness, when you are the one exhibiting those characteristics, not me.

Nice little philosophical rant, but you've done nothing to address the problem. TTC drivers are NOT doing their jobs, They are NOT respectful to their customers.

If you cannot make a logical and valid argument, don't comment at all. It's ok though Mike, I wouldn't expect someone of your background to be able to keep up with the more educated visitors of BlogTO.

What the hell would you know of my background, you pompous ass? Then again, who can argue with a liberal?

@Mike

Well I know that you've been a bus driver for 25 years. The last time I checked, a post-secondary education wasn't a requirement for that job. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but respect for bus drivers who do their jobs properly and courteously. However, for bus drivers like you, I have no problems calling you out on your obvious lack of education.

"Then again, who can argue with a liberal?"

There's that Ad Hominem again. It's like a crutch for you. You seem to rely on logical fallacies as much as you rely on your precious union. But again, logical fallacies are a common tool used by the uneducated who have never learned how to form a proper argument. So I won't hold it against you, Mike.

James, how do you put up with yourself? My origional rebuttal to your first post,regarding how lucky I should be is long dead. We are now simply engaging in tit for tat bs. I grow weary of it, so we"ll just agree to disagree.
But never forget, James, as an engineer, you don't have a clue what a bus driver's qualifications are, or what we go through in a typical day anymore than I know the challenges of your job.

But I know one thing, anyone who knows me and recognises my name on this blog knows that I'm right and you're wrong.

And anyone out there with a rudimentary kowledge of how a transi service works, knows it to.

Ta.

@Mike

It's hard, but I take comfort in the fact that I've got a great job in a great working environment, where I am surrounded by highly educated people, and am paid handsomely for. How do you put up with yourself?

Mike, if you were to job shadow an engineer for a few days, then you would have an idea of the requirements for, and challenges of, an engineering job. Over the years, I've racked up enough hours on the TTC to get quite a good idea of the challenges and requirements. Let's just say it's not rocket science.

You seem to not catch on very quick Mike, so I'll try and spell this out loud and clear. Most frequent TTC users have racked up enough time on the TTC to have much more than a rudimentary knowledge of how the transit service works. That being said, you don't need to have any knowledge of the transit system to know that the rude, disrespectful, and sometimes downright disgusting TTC drivers who seem to be appearing more and more frequently, should not be fighting for more benefits, they should be fired on the spot. The ATU is doing a disservice to this city through the use of propaganda, and is only going to increase the public's distaste for the TTC.

Funny how you think that the readers of this blog will think you're right. Have you actually read this comment thread? Saying that you are in the minority is an understatement.

It's doesn't matter what you or your fellow drivers think. It matters what the public thinks. They are your boss after all. And if the comments on this blog, and many others are any indication (which they are), the public doesn't think very highly of you.

Dear Mike McDonald (real original name, by the way... are you one of the gazillion comedians sharing the same name, or the backup singer for the Doobie Brothers?)

Are you familiar with the "wah-wah!" sound? Boo freaking hoo to you, Mr. TTC driver. You're almost all a bunch of overpaid asses, with the (very) RARE exception. You don't like getting paid almost $30 an hour? Then get another job, or look for sympathy elsewhere.

Jerks!

Just one more thing, poindexter. I called you ignorant before because you have based your entire argument on little or no accurate information regarding my profession. Listening to you confirms that.

Building a case based on suppositions and assumptions, something liberals are susceptable to, betrays your ignorance. Not to mention your insufferable arrogance.

Dear Mikey MacDonald:

Shouldn't you be off driving a bus somewhere, instead of replying to comments every 15 seconds? Jesus, do you have a laptop perched on your legs next to your oversized (and idiotic-looking) steering wheel on your bus-bus?

Instead of coming off as the voice of authority for the TTC (and I'm sure your employer would love to know how you're reacting, and how much company time you're wasting, by the way), why not list your recent good deeds, like assisting elderly passengers or mothers with strollers? Why always focus on the negative aspects of being a driver? Yes, we know people sometimes treat you poorly, but please appreciate the fact that some drivers and ticket collectors are just plain miserable a-holes, and stop making yourself out to be the perpetual victim.

The depth and breadth of the ignaorance of people in this city never ceases to amaze me, Doggy-dog. But I must admit. You've just lowered the bar to a level of stpidity that suprised even an old jaded bus-bus guy like me.

Confirms everything I've said about the average TTC rider.

Mike,

I'm cc-ing this string to TTC head Adam Giambrone, at councillor_giambrone@toronto.ca and encourage all other bloggers to do the same. Good luck explaining your behaviour to him and the union :)

@Mike

I based my argument on empirical evidence obtained from riding the TTC for a number of years. That's about as solid as it gets. Although I guess you wouldn't know much about the process of forming an argument, considering your obvious lack of education, which is reflected in your profession.

You probably consider yourself quite the intellectual. And that may be true, relative to your bus driver friends. But here in the real world, your on the bottom rung my friend. People don't become bus drivers because they want to. They become bus drivers because they don't have the skills and intelligence to do anything else. You're quite the shining example of that, Mike.

"Just one more thing, poindexter."

If making 5 times your salary, and not getting spit on and assaulted at my job makes me a Poindexter, then I wear that title proudly!

Ok, the back and forth personal insults are enough... this comment thread is going to be closed very soon.

Personal insults? This whole blog is a personal insult to all the TTC workers. You tell us to suck it up and just charge people when someone spits on us and move on or quit.
You know how stupid that sounds, have you had anybody spit on you before?
You many think it's an isolated incident, well it's not I take the calls for ALL the assaults in the city and it's not isolated it happens 2 or 3 times a day that's even reported. That's not counting the other assaults.
These assaults are not because the operator was rude but by simply enforcing the rules.
I had one driver spat on and contacted in the mouth, when they caught the person turned out he had AIDS.
This poor guy has to go through tests for the next 3 months. Imagine coming home to tell your family. Another driver was bit on the hand by a Hepatitis carrier.
These assaults happen ALL the tim