City
Morning Brew: January 30th, 2007
Photo: "Cloud factory" by blogTO Flickr pooler rdstoker.
Your morning news roundup for a windy Wednesday January 30th, 2008:
Air Canada flights with YYZ in their trip plans seem to be jinxed. When it isn't passengers losing it, or computer systems losing it, it's one of the pilots losing it. A pilot on a London-bound flight had to be bound after he had a psychological breakdown. Sound familiar?
Toronto District School Board members voted on the creation of a highly debated black-focused school to help combat a serious, ongoing problem (about 40% of black students in Toronto don't get their grade 12 diploma). The concept was approved by a narrow 11-9 vote and has many people rejoicing and others reciting Martin Luther King and Rosa Park quotes. Is this an endorsement for specialization or segregation in one of the world's most diverse cities?
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As a kid growing up in Etobicoke, it was common knowledge that Peel region police were a little tougher and certainly stricter than the local force. Maybe it's because they've been jacking up on steroids?
It's crazy windy out there this morning. Stuff is being blown around and the winds have caused one street closure and several power outages already.
The "more than street meat" food cart pilot project was given the green light by city council, but the project needs a charitable injection of funds to get off the ground. Anyone care for a BMO samosa, or a CIBC sandwich?
Discussion
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Ms Payne is the one who caused the ruckus many years ago about the musical Showboat. She demanded that there be an educational element incorporated to the show because she believed that Showboat had negative racial stereotypes.
She was a pain then and is a pain now.
I went to an all-boys high school and didn't suffer because I wasn't around girls all day (though, my school wasn't on the public dime). I think a black-focused school is worth trying. The "Africentric" program at one school is reported to be a success, so perhaps this will be as well. If it doesn't work, it can always be stopped.
If you have all your education in this environment, what will prepare you for the outside world when you leave school?
What? Black-focused doesn't mean alien. Do people think that they'll be taught black math, black science, black arts, etc and that the learning would be completely different from those same disciplines in "the outside world"?
It's not like this school would be erected with a 40ft fence around it and students forced to stay within the walls in dorms. Students would continue to be immersed in Toronto every morning, every evening, and every weekend when they're not in school.
Are you serious? Why wouldn't it?
David: As I mentioned above, I went to an all boys school and related just fine to girls. Besides, I think people are confusing "africentric" with "black only". This is incorrect.
It's not like this school would be erected with a 40ft fence around it and students forced to stay within the walls in dorms. Students would continue to be immersed in Toronto every morning, every evening, and every weekend when they're not in school.</i>
I'm of two minds -- wait, no, <i>hands</i> about this.
On one hand, I agree totally with Jerrold.
On the other hand, I recall that Ontario voters rejected almost exactly this idea in massive (and, to my mind, racist -- but that's a whole 'nother discussion) numbers.
In other words, if we get Afrocentric schools, why shouldn't other cultural communities get the same opportunity for grounding and education in their heritages? Because they're not doing poorly enough at school?
For the record, I think that would be a good idea. In just about every other province they've already got a system set up for doing it.
Including, for instance, Quebec, which abolished confessional public school boards but funds about 60 percent of culturally-based schools' administering of the provincial curriculum (but not of the "extra" stuff those schools teach).
I support the proposal. But I also support the underlying logic. I recognise that the majority of Ontarians don't. Whether or not minority rights should be a simple question of majority-rules is another good question, but I don't know that we've gotten there yet.
Most subjects taught in school are generally irrelevant for real life (see: learning algebra - as stated above.) The main benefit I see from general public school is that it teaches children socialization with many different types of people. That's what is needed in society. You need to learn to work with people of all races, genders, intelligence levels, etc. because that's what you'll be dealing with in the real world.
I fear that further separating kids into specific groups will eliminate their abilities to deal with differences in people.
It's the same problem we face with the Internet and 1000s of television stations. You only learn about your specific culture and your specific issues, not the general culture of the world around you. There are no shared experiences anymore.
jewish schools.
male only schools
female only schools.
sports-focused schools.
private (money-only) schools.
those already exist. why such a commotion against black schools?
if it helps, great. what educators really need to do is stop giving kids a free pass., start challenging them again. I have many friends who are teachers who tell me it's a semi-unofficial policy that they can't fail kids anymore. what's the incentive to achieve then?
there's a lot about black Canadian culture that isn't taught. why no stories about Buxton, Ontario? have most Canadians even heard about this town?
I really do hope this new school helps with the current situation, but I'm afraid segregating the black students from the white students will only make the problem worse. And yes, they will be submersed into non-black culture after school and on the weekends (only if they chose to leave their particular neighbourhood), but learning <i>beside</i> and dealing <i>with</i> other ethnicities in school is an aspect I think will be sorely missed.
I'd like to know if the students themselves were asked for their opinion. It is them, after all, who decide to skip class, not their parents, or their teachers, or the school boards. Will having an africentric school make them want to attend? If it's a matter of having black teachers and counselors, then why don't they just look at the demographics of a specific school, and populate the faculty based on that? Is a whole new school necessary? Further more, why can't they modify the curriculum at a specific school based on the same principle? I know the curriculum is usually school board-wide, though.
Just some thoughts. I don't think the new school is a good idea, but it's better than doing nothing.
I suppose it all depends what goal you wish society to move towards. I, personally, have always enjoyed the idea that all people are created equal.
That being, the idea of supporting seperate school systems is ridiculous. The idea should be to bring people together in ONE system, versus starting a new system for each and every ethnic/religious/whatever group.
Whats next, seperate drinking fountains?
No, RBeezy. With the exception of Catholic schools, those are all privately-funded schools.
Afrocentric schools are proposed as a publicly-funded option. If you want to know where the commotion is coming from, see the recent Ontario election -- where there was an enormous commotion over the idea of funding <a href="http://www.multifaithcoalition.com/";>the second kind of school on your list</a>.
Surely you understand the difference between schools that taxpayers fund, and those that taxpayers don't?
<i>Whats next, seperate drinking fountains?</i>
You've misstated the premise, Jack -- this is not about different schools that accept different students, but different schools that provide different orientations. If what's next is a variety of different drinking fountains, all of which anyone can use then, sure, why not?
I'm aware of the reasons why there's some confusion over the TDSB's approval of black focused schools. as an active voter who doesn't bury my head in the sand over issues, I KNOW about Tory's gaffe w/ multi-faith schools.
here's the difference: focused. not exclusive. focused. how much different is this then what kids and popular culture do now anyways? lots of kids choose black focused music....Rihanna, Jay-Z, Timbaland anyone? there's no exclusion there.
focused.
if you didn't feel like you were part of the process, at a crucial time in your life when self-awareness is all consuming; wouldn't you tune out, drop out? as I see it, this is the main impetus for this movement. as a young black male who spent time (did time?) in Toronto's educational system I can tell you wholeheartedly that it was always a fight to gain respect - and I was part of the Gifted program! I believe that prevention trumps cure every time. if the educational system continues to dissuade students of any persuasion then we're all SOL.
surely you understand the difference between hope and despair?
No, RBeezy. With the exception of Catholic schools, those are all privately-funded schools.</i>
RBeezy you're wrong, there are several schools across Catholic and Public school boards that are male only, female only, artistic based, and sports based. A few examples I know of off hand are Cawthra Park and Holy Name of Mary, but there are several more all around the GTA.
Sigh.
You said: <i>catholic schools. jewish schools. male only schools. female only schools. sports-focused schools. private (money-only) schools. those already exist. why such a commotion against black schools?</i>
Jewish schools are not publicly funded, and Ontario taxpayers are violently against the idea. In fact, no school orientated along demographic lines is publicly funded. (Except Catholic schools, of course.) Ontario voters just crucified anyone who dared suggest the idea.
That's not a matter of argument. It's fact. Yes, there are specialty sports and arts schools. Those cater to no particular community. That's why Ontario voters haven't gone apeshit over them. If there are boys-only and girls-only public schools that's news to me but, again, a bit beside the point. Like sports and arts schools, these are not the relative comparators. The Jewish, Armenian, Greek, Coptic and similar schools are, because they target particular ethnocultural communities.
<i>here's the difference: focused. not exclusive. focused.</i>
No, that's not a difference. Tory's funding proposal was identical. Focused. Not exclusive.
<i>if you didn't feel like you were part of the process, at a crucial time in your life when self-awareness is all consuming; wouldn't you tune out, drop out? as I see it, this is the main impetus for this movement.</i>
Oh, there are lots of good reasons for this, Luke. I'm a strong supporter of the Afrocentric school idea. I'm a strong supporter of alternative schools which make room for transmitting particular ethnocultural heritages generally, in fact. Armenian. Egyptian Coptic. Jewish. Whatever people want. If we're serious about this whole multiculturalism and diversity business, then we'll move forward with it.
But, yes, there is the pesky matter of Ontario voters and tall-poppy syndrome.
<i>surely you understand the difference between hope and despair?</i>
Yep. But we're not talking about that. We're talking politics and feasability and an absolute-majority approach to minority rights. Those can get pretty ugly. Just think back to the last election.
Disparishun, the drinking fountain analogy works on the basis that promoting seperate school systems...be it based on ethnicity, religion, or any other criteria is a form of segregation.
Seperate school systems do not foster acceptance and understanding. All they do is keep reminding our kids that they are somehow different. It does nothing to bring people together...just pushes them more apart.
As I said, it all depends on where you want society to be in 10, 20 or 50 years.
Another thing I was wondering about is that they were talking about an Africentric approach to different subjects and I remember math being one of them. Can anyone please enlighten me as to what this means?
One of the things that I was really questioning was who else besides black students are going to go to this school? I know they say that it's not a black exclusive school but are there really going to be a lot of other ethnic groups clamoring for their child to go to a black focus school?
Oh, and to Rod. "Afro-Americans" wouldn't be going to this school. This is Canada and not every black person likes being called African.
I understand that you think that. But, you know, we've had culturally-specific schools, for 10, 20 and 50 years now. They've been running for a long time in Toronto -- albeit on a purely private basis -- and in Montreal, where state funding translates into much greater participation rates. And there just isn't any evidence to support what you are saying.
Culturally-oriented schools give their students background in a minority culture, sure. But that doesn't impair their participation in the majority or in society. Often it helps it by giving greater confidence and sense of self -- being a minority and being Canadian just aren't opposed to one another. Anecdotally, I know lots of graduates of Armenian and Greek and Jewish schools in Montreal. All are participating in society very nicely, and certainly in no more "ghettoised" a fashion than those who attend public school. They also speak three languages, help build international bridges, and are strong ambassadors for their cultural communities.
There are much bigger things in life than liking or disliking what you are called, and its about time certain groups stop focusing on small picky things, like their personal likes or dislikes and concentrate on the greater good of everyone - ALL races and ethnic groups, not just themselves.
So here is a question for you - When these kids graduate are we going to send them to work at an all black workplace too? It's just not realistic. Why immerse them in an all black environment during there school years if in real life that just isn't the case? How is that realistically preparing them for life outside this school?
And I agree 100% with Yoyi, it doesn't take special schools. Why were other ethnic groups/races so successful and continue to be very successful with their second and third generations?
Maybe 'cause they know it really all starts at home. A fact that some other groups continue to refuse to acknowledge.
I went to an all-male high school and didn't feel any less prepared to associate with females. I think this arguement is weak at best.
Disparishun, I know that there are many different school systems operating. For example, the public vs catholic system in Toronto. I am sure that both systems develop their fair share of qualified, well adapted and gifted graduates. However, my thoughts are going towards the future and mapping out a course for the education system in Canada.
I think supporting any school systems with a "focus" on a particular ethnicity or religious orientation sets a dangerous precedent. Private schools are one thing, but having tax payer money supporting a "focus" means that every other taxpayer should be entitled to the same. The slippery slope kicks in and I wish you good luck explaining to people of Indian, Polish, or Chinese descent why they dont have a "focused" school.
Looking at it from a fairness perspective, either everyone gets their own "focused" schools...or no one does.
Speaking strictly from a equality and management perspective...the easy answer is that no one should.
You know what I meant, I was just trying to emphasize my point.
<i>So here is a question for you - When these kids graduate are we going to send them to work at an all black workplace too? It's just not realistic. Why immerse them in an all black environment during there school years if in real life that just isn't the case? How is that realistically preparing them for life outside this school?</i>
Is this question for me? I am completely against these schools so I don't disagree with your point.
let's hope the black kid school will produce more michael jackson and whiteny houston, so they will pay us back with their tax dollars when they beome famous
and for anyone who thinks this is NOT segregation, you have just laid the head cornerstone for the first "white centered school".
I mean, I can't blame the TDSB for this, as the board has responsibility for the kids when they get there. They can't go about socially engineering these kids.
That said, all these folks who got up and argued for this at the meeting, especially the woman who confronted Trustee Payne, one thing went through my mind. If you bothered to discipline your kids with this much effort, and not blame everybody else for your and your kids' problems, would we be having this debate? If you stopped acting and thinking like you were second class citizens, and stopped instilling in your children this us against the world philosophy, would we be having this debate?
All the while, I don't know if actually think this, or if they're acting all indignant, because they know they can get away with it, and anyone who dares to disagree with them is immediately labeled a racist.
Seriously, with some rather unfortunate exceptions, racism is a self-inflicted wound. And quite frankly, I am sick and tired of being born with the unfortunate affliction of being a white male.
This is a dark, dark day to be a Torontonian, and this is a statement I find myself making with increasing regularity.
Personally this is a little crazy. Instead of introducing programs to deal with lower graduation rates among the black community, they're just segregating them? Segregated schools without doubt create enhanced hostility among communities. Even something fairly trivial as private vs public creates a deep fissure even at the University level. They just don't mingle as a rule. Also sports or religious schools still have a reason i.e. ok so there is a focus on sports or a focus on mandatory religious teaching.
So basically "What unique difference is there going to be in black and white schools?" other than the colour of skin.
I am all for all-Caucasian schools, if they have all-African schools.
<i>let's hope that the black focused school is focusing on singing, dancing and sports.</i>
hilarious. I guess the white schools will focus on oppression, colonialism and appropriation.
<i>white centered school</i>
isn't that what we've grown up with? if you look at the Canadian history that we've been taught, you'd swear that the land was all vanilla until the immigration influx of the '60's.
<i>Very very odd and worrisome that virtually all black people seem to favor this idea, and virtually all white people (or non-black people, really) seem to oppose the idea. </i>
we (speaking for all black people, as most everyone expects a singular black person to do) are not monolithic. not every black person wants black focused schools. but I'd bet you'd be hard pressed to fond a black person who doesn't think something should be done.
<i>racism is a self-inflicted wound.</i>
the dumbest of the dumb-assed statements. I'll remember that the next time a little old lady sees me and clutches her purse for no reason.
if you've never experienced racism then you have no basis for participating in such a discussion unless you're willing to educate yourself. ask your black colleagues - some who are undoubtedly amongst your best friends - about their experiences.
don't dismiss this outright. if you do dismiss it, please feel free to offer up your own solution to the real problems that exist.