Are the TTC drivers really that stressed?

i dont think people in general are expecting the TTC workers to "pamper" the passengers... I think we expect the bare mininum.... something as simple as when a subway train is not working and people are redirected to take the buses, 10 out of 10, the ttc workers have no clue where to direct people to.. they are creating more chaos and frustrations.. and isn't that part of their job? the ttc has no clue how to deal any kind of crisis, whether it is small or big.. they were polite during the world's youth day several years ago.. and not anymore..and why not? 'cause they were acting? whenever they are about to ask for an increase in token, the service goes down, co-incidence?

I left my cell phone on the Queen West streetcar last year after running the Sporting Life 10K. I realized a few minutes after getting off the streetcar, and started calling the phone. No one was answering my cell phone, and no one was answering the TTC lines either (it was a sunday). So I got in a cab and decided to try and beat the streetcar to the end of the line.

After explaining to the cabbie what was up (since I had no idea where "long branch" was and neither did he) he tried to call my cell. Someone picked up -- the driver!

He was amazing. Told me where he was, and so I got out of the cab and waited for his streetcar (he had already turned around and started heading back). When his car arrived, the door opened and he was on my phone talking to my mom! Turned out he spoke to quite a few friends -- told some he was Home Depot and others it was a Pizza Place.

And that's why I love riding the rocket.

Jenn, that is awesome.

It's funny. About two years ago I got off at Lakeshore and Kipling and realized my wallet was still on the streetcar. Having no money, nor my metropass. I did what I could.. I started walking towards long branch. About 20 minutes later the streetcar came back in the other direction and I got on. I saw my wallet sitting near the windshield. The wallet was sitting near the windshield, so I told him it was mine. He didn't believe me, so he checked my ID inside the wallet. He gave me the wallet back, money was still there. I was very lucky, he was a nice guy chuckled let me back off at Kipling and Lakeshore.

I left a comment about this in another TTC related story. I was on the 79 going home after a long day of retail (at least I sell cameras). The bus driver let everyone know that the bus was going Not In Service. I went to ask how far she was actually going. She then asked me how far I needed to go. I told her, and she let me off in front of my house!

Good article. I've been riding the TTC daily for almost 6 years now. Most drivers are fine, but we always remember the time the driver did something stupid, or got into an argument. I think paying for a service, and then getting yelled at by one of its employees troubles some people. Most of us wouldn't go into a store, or restaurant if the staff were constantly rude. But we deal with it, because for some of us The Better Way is The Only Way.

I mentioned this in a previous comment but I'll repeat it.

I was taking the late night Lawrence W blue line bus, planning to get off one stop before the last one (Weston) and walk home.

I was the only rider left on the bus when it got to Jane, and at that point instead of driving the final three stops and actually letting me off where I had to go, the driver switched off the automatic announcement system, turned a sharp (well, for a bus) right onto Jane and started speeding north. I called out "excuse me" and he ignored me so I walked to the front and asked, "Uhm, where are you going?"

He responded "Home." So I asked whether I could get off and he said "Sure."

Then I had to walk a half hour home at 4 am along Jane St.

I have plenty of complaints about the TTC but that was the first time I actually wanted to register a complaint against an employee.

One bad apple spoils the bunch. I'm paying $40 more a month for a pass than I would when I lived in Montreal, I get half the service, and t he service I get is often tinged with the distinct taste of "god I hate TTC employees."

Look, I'm sorry if you [ttc driver] had a fight this morning with their spouse, but unless I get a discount for the shitty service I don't care. Let me off at my stop, open the door for me when I've sprinted for 30 seconds in the fucking snow to catch the bus, and stop leaving me in the middle of nowhere because you ran late and "absolutely have to" short turn, thus leaving me on the sidewalk despite having paid my fucking fare.

One gets the feeling that a TTC driver is most likely to be assaulted after being a total dick. Not many people, except them dere crazy folk, will fucking spit on someone for no reason, even if they are brain dead high schoolers who haven't yet discovered the miracle oil called "shampoo."

I have family members who work for the TTC (my father included), and you people are far worse than them. I'm not particularly biased on this issue either, seeing how I use the TTC on a daily basis and get no special treatment (family members get no freebies or even discounts on anything). The stress got to be so much that my father (who by the way routinely does 12hr shifts serving you thankless people) transferred into doing flag bus routes for the elderly.

Drivers are spit on, yelled at, and at sometimes literally put their lives in jeopardy dealing with the people in this city. Very few people thank drivers for the service they provide and as someone else already mentioned, it's really something we only pay attention to when it goes wrong. At that moment it's of course the end of the world because your business is more important than everyone else around you.

Here's a story that might put into perspective the things that can happen to drivers. A while back a woman was hired by the TTC for bus routes. Only a few weeks into her employment a man got on the bus and said that he was short on fare; she let him on since she was on probation and didnt want any confrontation. A few stops down the line the man comes up and begins beating and choking her with the necklace she had on for no reason. She was pregnant at the time and ended up losing the baby.

My point about all this is, is that drivers are in a vulnerable position and I dare anyone to say that the job is not stressful. When you're yelled at constantly for things outside of your control, spat on, abused verbally and sometimes physically, day in and day out on sometimes extended shifts when you're just doing your job to the best of your ability, wouldn't you be a little bitter too?

We live in a large city, people need to be a little more understanding about circumstances and to just take a minute to breathe in and relax. You being delayed 5 minutes probably isn't the end of the world. When we all try to be a bit more positive, it helps everyone.

Actually, Ryan, my best information tells me that random spitting at TTC drivers is a significant ongoing issue that the union deals with. While I myself have not indulged, I think it must happen much more frequently than just with the crazy folk.

But hey, what do I know? Let's see some stats, TTC.

Two weeks ago a friend and I were accused of terrorist like activities in the TTC system by a TTC employee. This tidbit of hilarity brings me joy and satisfaction in my belief that the TTC is not only administered by rapscallions but also monitored by folks who gladly regurgitate their mindless dribble.

In direct opposition to what is apparently section 16 of the TTC by-laws, we were told we could not take a photograph on TTC property. The rules state that non-commercial photography is allowed.

Apparently ever since the subway bombings in London it is illegal and unlawful to photograph the TTC and on their property. I really didn't know what to think at first. Merely standing there shaking my head in dismay at the stupidity that was being bestowed upon us.

If we were taking photographs for ill-gain, would we not choose a location with much more social significance than St. Patrick station? Yet would we also not be intelligent enough to know that bringing a large dSLR camera, and a bag of gear and lenses would probably not be the ideal way to inconspicuously plan our demise? There are many smaller and simpler means to taking a photograph in public.

Do the same employees come running to scare off socialites taking bar-star pictures of their drunken friends on Saturday night? Is there a specified size or quality limit to the photographic device we can use on the property for non-commercial photography? Even cell phone pics are being sold to the press.

In the end, I have a great story of TTC idiocy and a bunch of great pictures of the subway in motion. From this day on I'm making it a personal initiative to photograph the TTC in spite.

And Brent, thank you for some much-needed perspective.

@Ryan C:

Obviously short turning is their decision (sarcasm). You think busses are just these rogue entities that drive around as they please? They short turn for a reason, because they're told to. How often do you defy the chain of command at your work for the whim of your customer?

Oh, and let's not forget this part! When you get bad service at a restaurant, do you spit on your waiter/waitress? How about anywhere else? Suddenly because they're a bus driver, events outside of their control or bad service is justification for you violating them in such a disgusting manner? You've got to be kidding me. You're whats wrong with this fucking city. Go back to Montreal.

Ryan is NOT what's wrong with this city. The lights on the CN tower are what's wrong with this city.

I've only reported one driver...for texting while driving a totally full bus up a one-lane-each-way street. For my six-stop trip there were four messages sent while the bus was in motion.

I read this very concerning blog post about a subway conductor on Joe Clark's weblog...

Personally I'd put that guy on a surface route, being shut away in his little box on the train doesn't seem to engage him.

Brent, I say we get rid of every commuter in Toronto and just leave the TTC employees. Preach on, brother!

There are two sides to every story, Brent.

You may have a point or two, but let's be completely honest shall we? I'm sure plenty of TTC passengers are ill-mannered and sometimes violent nutjobs. That's unfortunate but surely most TTC employees realize they'll be interacting with thousands of people per day, some of whom might be a little unhinged, when they fill out their applications for employment.

As you said, this is a big city. If you are not cut out for the job surely there are other jobs more suited for your temperament.

On the other hand, how is it OK for a TTC driver to flip out on completely innocent passengers? I was yelled at by a streetcar driver once when I didn't realize that his car had gone out of service. I was new to Toronto at the time and didn't realize how it all worked yet. He could have simply asked me to leave instead of shouting, "Get the f*&% off the car!" That was unwarranted and I suspect I'm not the first passenger to have had an unpleasant experience with a TTC driver.

Recently there was a story about a George Brown student who was waiting for a streetcar on King St. in the middle of the afternoon and was attacked and mugged by three young men. The streetcar driver saw what was happening and instead of helping this girl, he shut the doors and drove off. Nice. Perhaps he's suffering from PTSD after seeing this girl being attacked.

It's a contract year for the TTC.
Is this cover story considered news or just a report.
Gee a contract year, that report came out at the perfect time...

"Very few people thank drivers for the service they provide "

Uhhh ... why do they need thanks? They provide a service for which they get PAID. It ain't volunteer work.

Yes, there are bad apples in every bunch. And I'm even willing to allow for the fact that maybe the TTC has more bad apples, maybe by design, maybe by inaction, maybe because of PTSD. But I don't see how anyone can justify treating ANYONE with anything but courtesy and kindness. Pretend you're a driver; if you haven't done anything bad to someone, then why should you be treated badly?

Of course, after you've been treated badly, I figure the sky's the limit.

You couldn't pay me enough to drive some bus and streetcar routes in this city.
Yeah, TTC employees can be pretty rude, it's true...but, holy cow, I wouldn't want a front line job with the TTC for anything.
See those crazy people we all laugh about that ride the TTC...yeah, they have to deal with them.
No thanks.

Stress? Get used to it! Everyone has stress. But we don't take it out on strangers, or on people who are paying us to do something, do we? Sure, there are incidents of violence or vandalism, or passengers whose beheviour may be threatening or dangerous. But, in normal situations?

Here are my questions for the TTC:

1) Why is a pass 100$? And if it costs that much, why isn't it allowed to 'pass back'?
2) There are only two principal lines. Why are there frequent delays? Many cities have much more service, and far fewer delays or interruptions. Ever been to Japan? Their city subway and regional trains are all linked together, and they meet so that people can make connections. Why is is so hard to organise two subway lines?
3) Nice touch with the stop announcements. Why did this take so long?
4) Why don't university and college students have a discounted fare? Working people may be able to afford 100$ per month, but this is out of reach for many students.
5) When will the work along St. Clair, and in St. Clair W station conclude? I have lived in this neighbourhood for nearly two years. The station's been closed to streetcars for months now. Funny thing is, we never see anyone working on the construction. What's going on?

Until we get answers to questions like these I feel no empathy whatever for TTC employees.

Undoubtedly many TTC drivers put up with abuse from passengers on all too frequent a basis.

It is no less certain that a number of passengers deal with surly TTC employees who are often rude, inconsiderate, and don't seem to take their jobs at all seriously.

It is cliche, but "Two wrongs do not make a right"

I have seen great regular bus drivers on certain routes, the kind who hold the door for running passengers, help people with strollers get on and off the bus, always say "Good Morning" when you get on the bus and "Thank You" after you flash your Metropass or drop your token.

I have also observed that these drivers are seldom treated poorly and when they are, other riders come to the defence of the driver who has engaged them positively, perhaps even become like an old friend.

On the other hand I've see drivers utter racist language towards those for whom English is a second language or somethimes based on the colour of their skin.

I have seen drivers who shut doors in the face of the passenger running to catch their bus.

Drivers who don't bother to help the elderly or those with strollers and who barely acknowledge most of their 'customers'except with a grunt and dismissive gesture.

Those drivers should not be spit on, but they should be fired.

And while no bad behavior (short of violent or criminal) on the part of TTC staff justfies passenger rudeness or criminality it is safe to say that bad TTC staff (drivers/collectors)do have the effect of increasing the risk for their 'innocent' or decent colleagues.

Customer idiocy should be cracked down on by plain-clothes cops more often.

But drivers/collectors should be given customer-service training and should have their knuckles wrapped severely when they are rude to customers or when they fail to do their job properly (on purpose).

Lets try to answer Peter G's questions:
1) Pass is over $100 since the TTC gets a small amount of funding from the Province. Compared to other transit authorities in Canada and the US, this is considerably low.
2) Two lines due to lack of funding from Provincial and Federal governments. Again other transit corporations aren't starved for cash.
3) Stop announcements have been implemented fairly quickly. Due to the negativity surrounding the lawsuit that brought the project on, the TTC has not received credit (although its due).
4) The TTC and Universities are working on a U-Pass as we speak which will be $60/month. Currently, UofT is on the VIP program which gives a small discount at $96/month.
5) No idea, although the work at Museum is going along nicely isn't it?

Tripper: Yes, exactly. Why thank anyone at all who's in the service industry?

I always thought my friends in retail exaggerated the kind of rudeness and complete disdain some customers exhibit towards them, but clearly there are people in this city who believe that if a person is paid to do something, they are entitled to treat them terribly.

I'm amazed by the sheer lack of logic some commentators are displaying here. Some of you are justifying your dislike -- hell, outright hatred, looking at some of the names they're being called -- for many or all TTC employees because of a few bad experiences. This, I have to say, is probably a perfectly normal human response, because it just helps steel us for any similar future incidents.

Yet for some reason, if TTC employees develop standoffish, suspicious, or outright hostile behaviour because of THEIR bad experiences (which, I'm willing to bet, are more likely to happen because they encounter hundreds, if not thousands, of customers whereas a passenger encounters maybe half a dozen drivers a day), they are being absolutely unreasonable and crazy.

There are stories here of just incredibly horrible drivers, who, from what's been recounted here of their behaviour, are horrible human beings too. But some of their critics aren't any better.

I have a positive story to share. I was once waiting & waiting & waiting at Dundas West station for a bus fairly late at night. Another bus driver saw me waiting and came up to me to say that particular bus route was not running that night because of some construction difficulty. He asked me where I needed to go, and even though my destination was not on his route, he said he would add a loop on and drop me off close to where I needed to go. He said he was the father of 2 daughters and didn't want to leave a young woman stranded.

My nice driver story:
I used to live at King & Sherbourne, and frequently took the King or Queen St streetcars eastbound through the core - after all the drunk people get out of the bars. One driver in particular would crack jokes, ride the accelerator and brakes extra smoothly, and even once let a fellow out to vomit and get back on (while cracking more jokes). It made everyone on the streetcar feel good (whether they were drunk or not).

Sometimes I'd be on nearly empty streetcars even later. There was this one female driver that was as friendly and talkative as they get, not to mention attractive, but married ;) that I befriended because I found that our schedules jived when I kept having her as my driver. She was as cool as they come, great conversation, and just a pleasure to get to know.

Something about these two drivers made me think that TTC HR should more carefully select their staff. They should choose people with great personalities to drive. But with the Union as powerful and controlling as it is, my thoughts are merely pipedreams.

J-
RE: UPass. The clincher for the UPass is that ALL students will experience a tuition hike ('ancillary fees') of around $400 per year. Discounted???? Hardly.

I don't understand why it takes SO LONG to implement a fair and reasonable discount program for students. Post-secondary debt is not a new trend. In the six years that I've been a post-secondary students using the TTC I've gotten no break from the TTC. My schedule doesn't justify me purchasing a monthly pass, but if it were $60/month MINUS a tuition hike then I'd definitely purchase the pass just for the added convenience and flexibility.

I've never had a nice TTC experience, but I've also never had a bad one either. Brampton Transit on the other hand.... schedules never match up and bus drivers won't stop for a runner even though they know the next bus is atleast another 15 minutes down the road...

My dad lives in Victoria currently and said this to me in an e-mail a few weeks ago:

"i'm still puzzled about the habit of Victoria bus riders to say thanks to the driver as they get off the bus, average is loud and clear and includes back door also, mindyou, not during peak busy period. but imagine figuring out how this got started or how it could be started somewhere else--"

The union is already using this as an excuse why the TTC Operators need to get paid more this upcoming contract renegotiation.

It's hard to feel sorry for a TTC driver when he parks his bus between stops in front of a Tim Hortons to get a coffee and let his passengers wait for five minutes without announcing anything.

Wtf are you talking about Anu? You don't pay $60 AND the annual U-Pass student fee. It's JUST the fee. And why, you ask has it taken so long to implement this? Because everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too, like you. So deal with it. Take your $36 per month discount and be happy.

Chris Orbz: There's a tradition of thanking the GO bus driver, I'm told, at least on the run down from Aurora, so Victoria isn't alone.

@Chris Orbz, it's like that in Vancouver as well. I was quite surprised when I moved to Toronto last year and no one ever said thank you.

@ Corrector

what ANU meant was that there is no-opt out for students who live downtown and walk to class, so an extra $480 during the school year is close to an entire month's rent! how is it fair for the students who live downtown to have to subsidize the ttc pass for the commuter students?

I actually prefer exiting the TTC buses and streetcars by the front doors, because I like to thank the driver, ALWAYS. Same with my trips on GO buses. People think it's odd to be polite? Sheesh.

The most personable drivers are systematically headhunted for Wheel-Trans. If you?re exceptionally good with people, a Wheel-Trans supervisor will be putting weight on your supervisor to get you to transfer over. There are many more general-service drivers than Wheel-Trans drivers, so those of us who use the general system, disabled or not, will never really notice the difference, but that?s where some of the nicest drivers go.

THe TTC remains, bar none, the poorest public transport system I have ever experienced, anywhere in the world. Poorly funded, poorly run, poorly staffed. It seems to me that most of the employees of the TTC, especially those in the booths in the stations, are only able to operate in grunts. Every time I buy a Metropass, I say "hello", "thankyou" etc, and I think only once in five years have I heard anything in response.

I am pro-union, but the TTC Union is a perfect example of everything that can go wrong with a union, and it gives all unions a bad name. These people need to be FIRED, not given raises. People in booths should have been replaced by machines years ago. It's joke that I can now buy a metropass in SOME stations from a machine, but only with a debit card. It's a joke that it costs almost $3 to go 1 stop, and $3 to go all the way to the airport. How about some short term investment in technology to allow zonal fares, to reap long term benefits? Nope, the TTC doesn't think like that. It never plans for the future, only year to year. The TTC is stuck in a brain dead mentality from the 1960s, and no one seems willing or able to turn it around.

The TTC is a colossal joke, and an embarassment to Toronto.

It's fun to read people's anecdotes, good and bad, about the TTC employees they have encountered.

But I'm not sure how this related to droves of TTC workers getting paid medical leave for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

(And incidentally, my opinion of TTC bus drivers is generally low mostly because my experiences with them consistently fail to measure up with my excellent experiences with GO bus drivers. And it is common practice to thank a GO bus driver as you leave the bus.)

Thanking surface drivers is pretty common in my experience, you just have to exit at the front to hear it. Maybe not everyone does it, but I'd say at least one in ten will, especially at night.

In a previous comment for a different post I think I once said I couldn't remember ever seeing a TTC employee being an outright dick. I remember one time, now. 7 years ago I was on the Finch bus heading east from Weston toward Keele, around 9 in the morning. A woman made to get off through the front doors and the driver told her to use the back instead. I don't know if she didn't hear him, didn't understand, didn't speak English, or was just stubborn, but she stood there waiting for the doors to open. This enraged the driver, who then pulled away from the stop and carried on. He reached the next stop and refused to open the front doors to let passengers on, lest this woman get her way. He opened the back doors and waved them to use those doors instead. At the next stop he did the same. All the while yelling and cursing the woman, as if she was the one being unreasonable. The bus wasn't crowded, the traffic wasn't bad, and the stop where she tried disembarking had nobody waiting to get on, so I'll never know what was so bad about trying to get off at the front except that it wasn't his preference.

Toronto is full of crazy people who rant and spit and flip out. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them landed jobs at the TTC.

I guess the solution then is obvious, since TTC drivers are so evil, and so many people commenting here are wonderful, shiny, happy people...perhaps YOU would like to do their job, since it's obvious you could do it much better. Also, you must volunteer, seeing as how you think they are so overpaid, I imagine you would be much too virtous then to accept so much money for doing their job. "No, no, I couldn't possibly accept money for doing this, I LOVE dealing with an ungrateful public who gets pissed because I don't smile at them." I'm sure a lot of the people on here AREN'T overpaid at their jobs either.
So what if they are trying to get more money...isn't that what YOU do at YOUR job? Does anyone on this page work for free and NOT try, any chance they can, to get a pay-raise?
"A raise? Oh no boss, I couldn't, I really love my job, there's no way I could accept more money for doing it."

My only main problem was with Brent, who posted:

"The stress got to be so much that my father (who by the way routinely does 12hr shifts serving you thankless people) transferred into doing flag bus routes for the elderly."

I don't spit on or mistreat drivers in any way. Why am I lumped in with the bad seeds and referred to in a clearly derogatory way as being "thankless"?

I didn't force your father to be a TTC driver, nor to work 12 hour shifts or become so stressed. The key is that he realized it wasn't for him or what he wanted and he transferred. That's great, really, but is the bottom line.

The TTC employees are already paid to do a job, and a job that they choose. They are not forced to work for the TTC. And it's not an unpaid volunteer position at a charity, either. His stress was not caused by passengers like me (who could essentially be called "ghosts" for how little a factor I am as a passenger) not saying "Thank you" as I leave.

I feel legitimately bad for any service employee who gets assaulted, ridiculed, or harassed, but that doesn't mean that every employee shouldn't at least do their job while they are employed at that position.

Joe- I have to agree with you, though there are a few exceptions, most of the TTC employees seem to despise the customers. I have noticed quite often lately with distaste how rude they are to elderly people who are simply asking them questions on where the bus is heading, etc. If they respond in anything more than a grunt, it is usually to bark out "read the sign!" or something similar. As someone who works in customer service, I am appalled by their lack of basic manners. They ARE in the customer service business and should act like it. I don't condone violence towards the drivers but I can certainly understand why some riders (notice how they call us "riders" instead of "customers"- are we not paying??? Does that not make us "customers"?) would get angry and frustrated when they pay to use a service that continually does not serve. The drivers don't understand that when they are late that means that we, the paying customers, must be late to work and explain ourselves to our employers- obviously that would make us frustrated and angry. I think that if the drivers learned some basic customer service skills (instead of a raise) that would help with their so-called stress. Customers would not "verbally abuse" them if they actually treated their paying customers like people instead of acting like we are just a bother. To all TTC Drivers- snap out of it, you are lucky to have a such a good job, start treating the riders with respect!!!!

so many great insights on this comment opportunity...At the end of the day when its all said and done, what needs to be seen here is...What does the TTC offer...how to do they affect Torontoians, and how good vs. harm do they do for the city...It's an easy answer..You already know the answer...

The trick is to find a way for everyone to do it all the time, and remain consistent in the path of adversity i.e. frustration, anger, etc...

If you want change, you have to make it...No one else will.
Maybe every person on this comment page and all who are just avid readers, or casual ones can use this message as a catalyst for change....

We as people are inherently good...Be an activist to to foster that...

...signing off...

I, too, thank the drivers when I have the chance (exiting the front doors - no yelling from the back doors for me!), but it surprises me how many drivers ignore me when I do it (not that I expect recognition)

I, too, have had horrible experiences on the TTC - just this morning, in fact, when York Mills went down and my 45 minute commute turned into a 1:55 commute because some jackass thought he'd jump during the morning rush. (yes, not the fault of the drivers, but a nasty experience none-the-less)

I've had drivers drive right past me late at night as I've waited for the bus.

I've had streetcars short turn late at night in the worst possible neighborhoods (who thinks it's right to let a small group of women out at Dundas & Parliament at 3am?)

I've seen a full on fight (in the morning commute, no less) where the streetcar driver, didn't seem to even notice what was happening - continued driving and didn't appear to call it in, with other passengers instead breaking it up and diffusing the situation.

I've also had really great drivers. Ones I see most mornings on my way into work that are genuinely pleasant, say Hi and How are you?, stop between stops for the woman with her seeing eye dog.

I think it's the same as any job, you have people who who are good at their job and do it well (and happily) and people who despise their jobs and take it out on their customers.

I'm sure there are plenty of asses who ride the transit and get a kick out of harassing and assaulting the employees, but having never seen it first hand (and having lived down town and taken the TTC daily nearly my entire life), I can only conclude that there is a lot of systemic abuse on the part of the drivers as well.

I've heard it's the new "calling in sick".

And it's those people who make the good ones look bad.

Seconding the comment that just because it's a stressful work situation there is no right to lash out to innocent customers. Many people have stressful lives and work and it's no reason to lash out at your clients. While it's true that it only takes one bad experience, bad experiences happen far too often to be coincidental - basically I can expect 1 in 3 drivers to be rude. Visit any Toronto website/forum, and threads about TTC are usually filled with people's complaints (as with this one). Of course, many TTC drivers are nice and I treat them with respect, saying Hello and thank you every time.

I very troubled that we're more concerned about drivers getting PTSD than the apparently huge number of suicides at the TTC? We should be focusing on stopping the suicides (e.g. suicide barriers on platforms are used in other countries. How has this been allowed to continue for years?

It's not just the rudeness that other poster mentioned, but outright dangerousness. Yesterday at the platform, we had a train come to a full stop, then without any signals, start running again. Turns out the train had not fully driven out of the tunnel. Passengers standing in the middle of the platform could not see this and some were only an inch from the train and almost got hit. Maybe this is a machine problem but the drivers really should have given some signal to the passengers that he clearly could see were crowding on the yellow line, as it was during 5-6pm and the station was packed.

On the danger aspect, I've been on a subway that started pulling away with the doors still open. We went at least two metres before they closed.

If not for their union, I bet a lot of TTC employees would find themselves out of work based solely on customer complaints.

Rek, the relationship between the transit union and the TTC employee performance level is a murky and troubling one indeed. Doubt we'll ever see any clarity about what's going on there.

I had a TTC driver say good-morning to me yesterday and every other passenger who went onto his bus. It was the 29D on Dufferin if anyone is curious. This made my day and although I've had bad experiences on the TTC I'm choosing to remember this one over the bad ones because they make me happier when riding the rocket :)

LOL everything good always happens to you, Luke ;)

ANyways, my experiences with the TTC have really run the gamut. I have had bus drivers drop me off right in front of my building in the middle of the night, and I have had a subway collector violently freak out because I needed change. These kinds of people happen to exist in the world, and the TTC just happens to hire both of them.

Thus, I just try and pay it forward. A kind word or a smile to a bitter employee might just cause them to rethink their worldview. Try it out!

It's great to hear some of the positive stories here too. It's human nature to only recall the negative stuff though.

I've had my share of occasions when I sprinted to the stop, only to have the doors closed in front of me and the bus driver take off without me. I've had subway booth collectors refuse to accept nickels and dimes. Contrast that to small-town Belleville (where I've been going to school this past year or so) where the bus drivers actually look out for riders and often wait until such passengers catch up to the stop if running (literally) a few seconds late. And they actually offer us a "Take care, have a good night" upon leaving their bus.

@ Brent: Why are TTC drivers routinely working 12 hour shifts in the first place? Put anyone on that kind of schedule and they're bound to provide less than stellar service. Sounds to me like the TTC needs to make take better scheduling for their drivers and take better care in training their staff.

@ Jeremy: Perhaps you've already seen this discussion about photography on TTC property posted on flickr that was started two years ago (but is still very much relevant) about shooting on TTC property. Here it is for the benefit of others.

@ Mark: I hear you on that one. You wouldn't expect a taxi cab driver to stop, unannounced, at a Timmy's to get a coffee while your fare is running. Why do TTC bus drivers get away with this?

That is a wonderful perspective on the attitude of TTC drivers. However, I find that the booth people are the rudest...I cant image what their stress level is like, because mine goes significantly higher up after dealing with them. I think that their union is pretty pushy, making some of them way too comfortable with their jobs and not providing quality services to their passengers. Its like they do it for free?!

On the other hand, I do think that the city should do more about relieving the city of congested traffic by providing support, alternatives and more finances for the city transportation systems. Its in everyone's best interest.

Great post, thank you for your insight!

Sitting through the Vic Park service disruption this morning gave me ample time to reflect further on the situation. Like, for example, the subway driver who might as well have been drunk for the degree to which he couldn't make himself understood while slurringly attempting to instruct the passengers of my train to exit at Woodbine....

...or on the other end of the spectrum, the shuttle bus passenger who simply would not move off the step at the rear doors to allow the doors to close - he was staying on the bus, even if it was going nowhere.

And then there's TTC management, who had a signal problem at Vic Park station last night when I was going home which apparently was still recurring by 8:15 this morning, and who set up a shuttle bus service for a problem that was actually resolved before any of the shuttles could reach the other end of the service gap.

In light of these incidents, I'm thinking the only thing we really need is a system-wide ban on shitheads.

Roger - Belleville only has two buses though, making the grand tour from Walmart to the Quinte Mall. :) (I went to high school there, but only took the city bus once.)

How about the street cars on Queen East? I know I absolutely love seeing three of them go by in the 60 seconds it takes me to walk from work to the corner, and then wait 10+ minutes for the next one to come. There's just no excuse for that sort of bunching, yet it happens *every*night* on Queen East. So you don't even have to see the TTC employees in person to be pissed off at them.

What is it with people blaming bus drivers for the price of the metropass and system unreliability? It's not the drivers' fault, you know. Just because you dislike the system, you feel it's justified to bash the system's employees? In fact, the shoddiness of the system affects the employees to a greater extent than any of us TTC riders. I am grateful that someone is actually doing that stressful (yes, very stressful) and thankless job.

I have to agree that the booth employees seem to be the ones really in need of some customer service training. This is pure conjecture, but I suspect the booths are a dumping ground for employees too surly to interact with people on surface routes.

The thing to keep in perspective is that the TTC has probably thousands of employees who have contact with customers every day. Some of those people are going to be great and some of those people are going to be total jerks. Having worked for the city before in a unionized environment, I know how hard it can be for management to effectively discipline the real tough cases. You need two verbal warnings before you can escalate to three written warnings before you can even start the process of trying to get someone fired. And it's not like they can just say "Here's a box, go clean out your locker". There will be meeting after hearing after appeal after grievance and even then there's no guarantee that a firing will "stick". Employees basically have to be caught in the act of stealing money or striking a rider to qualify for an automatic termination. The process is so costly in terms of capital and time, its probably always easier to just let the malcontents fester in obscurity.

Nice driver story:
I don't know if he's still driving, but there was one driver on one of the lines leading into Broadview Station who used to get on the bus PA, and do a mock airline announcement. "Ladies and gentlemen, we will be arriving at Broadview shortly, the time is 8.37 am and the current temperature is -8 degrees. Thank you for choosing the TTC and enjoy your day." All the bleary-eyed commuters would give a wan smile. Sometimes that's all it takes.

A couple years back, one quiet sunday night a ticket collector at Dufferin station short-changed my mother in law $2 for a metropass, we walked back and got it back with some difficulty, then when my friend said he would report the employee the guy jumped up and among other things he shouted, "I'm going to kick your ass!". No joke.

We did report him and supposedly he was 'disciplined'.

I guess I might be as high strung sitting in one of those boxes underground all day.

Generally I am more than happy with the service, however I usually travel on my bike.

A few years ago, when I used to ride the University line to school, there was a subway driver who would announce each subway stop using different and hilariously outlandish accents. A robot voice for St. Clair, a twangy cowboy accent for Rosedale, a cockney British accent for Bloor, an operatic falsetto voice for Dundas.

It was one of the few rare times when the usually prim and cold Torontonian passengers would actually break the icy social barrier and make eye contact with other strangers, laughing and smiling at the absurdity.

I was lucky to have this driver a few more times - with the automated voice now, it makes me a bit sad that I'll never get to experience it again, but I'm glad I had the opportunity.

Only the ludicrous pay, benefits and time off make up for a truly lousy job. Put yourself in the drivers seat waiting for the wacko that gets on looking for a fight and add guns to the equation now. And any passenger can accuse you of racism or whatever.

I've had great guys just doing there job, and seen drivers provoking arguments over 5 cents. I'm afraid dealing with the public in Toronto was OK up until 1985. I'd rather live in Resolute Bay than meet some of these people in Toronto now.

Ha - booth employees - there used to be a black women that talked on the phone all the time while doing her half inch long purple fingernails at the Queen station. Is she still there?

After riding the TTc for over 25 years I can honestly say there are 2 sides to this story. The real issue for me over the years has been the TTC service and not the individual drivers. Constant fare hikes for the same monorail that I was riding over 25 years ago. The station is the same except for more garbage and newspapers. Have you ever taken the subway on a saturday night?...does the fare not cover some form of maintenance? No bathrooms at subway stations. Ridiculous parking fees at local stations. More violent incidents on the transit that TTC employees ignore. Streetcars that really do nothing for bike traffic, car traffic and least of all the poeple that ride them. Who are we kidding? Our public transit system is mismanaged..... so as a commuter that has no other option... I can be pissed.

I've been riding the ttc on an everyday basis for the last 10 years. I always make a point to be friendly to drivers and say thank you and yet I notice that the majority of the drivers are still rather rude and you're lucky if you get a grunt as a reply. Don't get me wrong. I do get the occasional driver that is pleasant, talkative and friendly but let me just say it is RARE.

And this is coming from a student that works retail for minimum wage that isn't protected by a union (ticketmaster location) I deal with my own bitchy, abusive customers but I would NEVER take it out on the next one.

Every month I regret my choice of buying a metropass.
Not specifically for the price but the fact I am encouraging a transit system that is constantly lagging and seems very unlikely to improve anytime soon.

Our province needs to cough up some more funding for service improvements. Especially when we are encouraging a greener lifestyle and opting for the TTC instead of driving. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? they can hardly handle the amount of people riding now. Can you imagine how bad it would be if even 25% of the citys population driving decided to take the TTC instead. Clearly David Miller has never had to take a queen or king streetcar during rush hour!

My best memory of the TTC is the streetcar driver on the Queen West 501 line that sings out the stops. Or the subway driver on halloween announcing the stops with a spooky voice.

I just wrote up a story on idiots who make life miserable for the TTC: http://krupo.ca/archive/2008/02/08/clueless-woman-blocks-street-disrupts-streetcars-infuriates-me.aspx

Specifically, people who can't park to save their lives. I should add that the TTC guys were Class Acts all the way during that stupid incident.

After visiting Victoria I too have been saying "thanks" more frequently when disembarking from the TTC.

I don't know about everyone else, but over the last two months or so I've noticed a significant INCREASE in the politeness of TTC operators - maybe it's because it is in fact a contract year? Interesting.

Also, re: the long St. Clair construction time - it's because of the "Save our St. Clair" idiot-group which stalled construction and upset the entire construction schedule with their hare-brained opposition to the project. The TTC doesn't actually do all the work - you have third-party private contractors doing it. When their schedule is thrown out of whack, as you can imagine, everything ends up going out the window, hence the delays and lack of activity you see.

For everyone who's also upset about lack of streetcars: TTC knows. Problem is a lack of *physical streetcars.*

Pray that they place their order for more cars as soon as possible, so the ongoing service disaster can get fixed within the next 2 years... (it's not like you can go to Streetcar Depot and just pick more up - it's all made to order).

I have had bad experiences but mostly good with the TTC.

For example I was coming home from a club one night and it was quite late (1:15 or so) and I asked the booth operator for change for a fare and he told me just to deposit 2$. Very nice for a poor student like me.

What a bunch of surly, idiotic comments some of you people (and I use that term loosely) have posted. Piss on the lot of you. If you don't like the service, don't use it. DUH!

Every night I wait at Midland and Finch for the 57 south bus, that arrives at 10:17pm. February 11th, the bus came at 11:05pm. 50min late. It was snowing and very cold, but it was still fine for buses to operate. I got on the bus and asked a young female driver why is it that she is that late. She did not reply... just kind of smiled at me. As we left the bust stop she got on the cell phone and was on it while I was on the bus. She was driving about 20km an hour. I guess I got the answer why she was late!!

Any job can be stressful. but lets narrow down the facts:

TTC employees are unionized. This means they can arrive late, leave early, take poo breaks while on shift (stopping the streetcar/bus whenever they want and take their time) and barely get punished for it.

- Their pay is amazing, look at the fair hykes! goes to maintenance? is that why there was a de-railment?

- Sure you have to deal with people, but you're sitting on your but the entire shift...rreeeaalllyy hard.

Screw the TTC. Driving will be cheaper and the prices will never go down.

That's the problem with unionized workers, they become spoiled brats.

"If you don't like the service, don't use it. DUH"

Public transit is an essential service and as a Toronto resident and taxpayer I have every right to expect a better transit system and transit workers that have at least a minimum amount of respect and courtesy for the riders. Other city's transit systems can manage it, why can't the TTC?

Obviously the current TTC is not working. There needs to be a major internal shakeup to get things back on track (so to speak) Maybe a provincial takeover will accomplish this. Maybe not. Either way something has to change.

Unfortunately, as far as I know, the TTC is not classified as essential service. That said, you're right tripper: jack's comment is moronic. If there were a single relevant alternative to the TTC (by relevant I mean same cost, same service areas), I would use it in a heartbeat. In the summer, I ride my bike, but I can't ride it to work.

Well, I've read through all of these comments, and I think we can all agree that, our feelings about unionized workers and the quality of the TTC's staff aside...riding the TTC as a passenger just flat out sucks. Unfortunately, many of us (and I'm one of them) have no choice.

"I guess the solution then is obvious, since TTC drivers are so evil, and so many people commenting here are wonderful, shiny, happy people...perhaps YOU would like to do their job, since it's obvious you could do it much better."

Probably, because I can actually drive a vehicle with a steering wheel.

"What a bunch of surly, idiotic comments some of you people (and I use that term loosely) have posted. Piss on the lot of you."

Now look up the word ironic....see how it slaps you in the face, and then laughs at you?

" Problem is a lack of *physical streetcars.*"

No, I'm sure what you really meant was:

"lack of physical streetcars, without red 'out of service' signs, running in packs, on very cold days, at noon on the Queen route."

True, David, obviously it's not the ONLY problem - unionized workers heading home at the end of a shift and management not making sure there's enough replacement staff to keep the cars we DO have on the line is another problem.

But when you hit the peak service period, there's only so many to go around - my point was mainly in response to one person who argued things are fine and dandy, naively believing that 30-year-old rolling stock is somehow a Good Thing - so at peak periods, you'll probably only seem any in the yard if they're being serviced.

Funny you should mention the 501 line and cold weather: I learned from another operator on Wednesday in the -10 weather that the extra-long cars running on 501 are VERY weak in cold weather.

Apparently the cold air combined with some moisture will freeze their air release valves in the open position. If you ever find a 501 car dead in the middle of the road, hissing loudly, that's the problem.

The operator's comment was funny - they built the cars in Thunder Bay, yet they didn't design them for cold weather, i.e. -10 or worse.

I found about this because one of the 501s on diversion through King was broken down, and he explained the whole scenario.

If you were stuck in a horrible traffic jam on Wednesday afternoon on King around Bathurst/Spadina, now you know why.

I had an experience a few days ago with a driver that ruined my day. I got on the eastbound Dundas streetcar at Lansdowne the other day, and the sign on the front of the car still read 'Dundas West Station via Dundas) on it. I know that some of the drivers simply forget to switch the sign over at the station - no big deal, right? Well, I thought the driver would want to know it hadn't been changed, so I said something like "Excuse me, but I just thought I would mention that your sign hasn't been changed yet." as I was paying my fare. He launched into a sarcastic tirade about how observant I was and how I'm really good at noticing things. I then, befuddled and confused, walked to the back of the streetcar, only to return to him to explain to him that I was only trying to be nice and that it's confusing to visitors to the city when the streetcar's signs aren't correct. He then upped the ante on his sarcasm by about 100% and spent the next 3 or 4 stops VERY sarcastically saying things like "Oh, oh, you are SOOOOOOOO nice. What a nice guy! Oh, oh, I'm going to name my first child after you because you are SOOOOOOOOOOOO nice!". Then, after a couple more stops he changed the sign and that was it. I didn't deserve to be treated like that, and it completely ruined my day.

It did, however, make me cherish the courteous and smiling drivers I encounter with thankfully more frequency than this nutbar.