Did Toronto Nightclub Bouncers Cross the Line?

There is no excuse for this kind of violence, at all!

The 'bouncing' community in this city is so out of control.

Although Barry and Michelle's tale is alleged, it's not unbelievable. All the night clubs I've worked at have had hot-headed security staff, that carried illegal weapons and were always looking for a fight.

WTF.
What could anyone do in a club to deserve that? And ask yourself, could it happen to you.

Maybe they should contact the police, rather than start a facebook group? Online protests are awesome as awesome as online petitions.

Damn my comment is gibberish: Online protests are about as awesome as online petitions. There are more effective ways of dealing with a problem. Does support in a Facebook group translate to support in the real world? I'm not so sure. I imagine they could sue the bouncers for assault if they had a valid case.

LIES!
These guys snuck into another room, tried to steal booze from a bar and got caught. the bouncer tried to escort them out and they both got physical. thats when the other bouncers came in and helped their colleague.

Couldn't the bouncers simply restrain them until police arrived? The guy in the first photo looks like he was given a royal beatdown fist and feet to the face style.

Right - as if I'd trust bouncers and their thug bosses to be honest about something like this. Even if the guy had something coming to him, which is probably more than likely, these piece of garbage bouncers are only too happy to get a chance to legally swarm and pummel people. The cops turn a blind eye because it's all about money, and James can shove that "wow" right up his ass cause anyone who's been to a club knows just how seriously those hired goons and their bosses respect the law.

These "bouncers" are simply power-hungry brainless a$$holes who are not smart enough to make it into the police force (which gives you a clue... you don't exactly have to be a genius to get into the police force). They are criminals, and the police does not care about their actions. If somebody were to beat my brother up like that, and the bastards weren't thrown in jail for a few years, I'd be sure to take justice into my own hands. Of course I'm not a bouncer, and they'd throw me behind the bars. Oh well. There are some things you have to avenge, no matter the consequences.

Having been involved in a few scuffles with bouncers in my younger days, I can tell you that more often or not, it was only after I decided that I was being wronged did violence occur. The bouncers were generally always polite but insistent that I vacate either the general area or the premises.
Takes 2 to tangle like that in this incident. I'm not going to side with either side. Violence begets violence in the end.
I'm certain that are also security cameras in the club for these and other sorts of incidents, just in case. So one way or another the truth will come out.

Wow people are talking like Toronto is under mob rule or something. I don't care who owns what and can pay off whom but there's no way cops could write this off without knowing the shitstorm that would ensue. I call bullshit on Kevin's story.

Yeah, I'm sure it was a two-way fight. One drunk and his girlfriend vs how many stone-sober bouncers? And they
couldn't just hold them? They had to beat them unconscious?

Sure, A two way fight, what a JOKE.

I hope this story blows up so these thugs can finally have the spotlight shone on them. But, alas, I doubt it will.

And as for the cops, see the following and search for "protection racket":
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/torontopolice/2004.html

leaving out the small detail of the dude and his friend attacking the bouncer after they had been caught committing an illegal act and asked to leave private property.
- blik, blik, blik...Come on. Really? So a drunk kid and a woman attack seasoned bouncers and this makes it justifiable? I've seen bouncers get people bigger than these two out of a club and off the protperty and eliminated the threat to the patrons with much less effort and violence (their ONLY job). At what point were the cops called? How much time lapsed between the call and their arrival? No. Sorry. This would be bad enough if the cops had beat these two like this. So, how far into this beating were this girl and this man no longer a threat to anyone? Listen, but anyone who would stil patronize this club should have their head examined. These are cowboys looking for an excuse to beat the crap out of someone. Have fun in this facist club. If these creeps get away with this, they'll push the envelope a little farther next time.

I've worked in the bar industry for a couple of years now, and I've never worked in an establishment where the bouncers were violent or vindictive.

The only thing I've ever seen is drunk patrons getting violent, and doormen (and women) protecting establishments from vandalism, workers from assault and the club owners from lawsuits.

I've been in numerous situations where bouncers have saved me from physical attack. If a drunk becomes violent bouncers should have the right to use as much force as they need to to get the situation taken care of quickly. Not excessive force mind you, but enough to get the job done.

I've never been to the Guvernment, but I can't see the alleged scenario taking place anywhere. First of all, to enter a restricted area of any establishment is asking for immediate removal. I am sure these areas are very clearly marked, especially if you're getting anywhere near the booze. Secondly, to be outnumbered 10 to two, while defending your lives? It's hard to manage ten (normally larger) men around two curled up bodies. It just doesn't seem like there would be enough room for ten men to "stomp" effectively. It seems more likely that any surrounding doormen would be keeping other patrons (potentially friends or girlfriends) out of the fray, which happens a lot.

This past Sunday the CBC ran a great doc. about the club district in Toronto. I suggest everyone watch it, it was really well done. You can watch it here: http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/2007/10/100707_1.html
It may put things in a little more perspective.

I don't think anyone should be punched in the face under very many circumstances, but security staff puts their lives on the line nightly to keep everyone in their establishment safe. It isn't an easy job. Unless you've worked a night in a club it's hard to describe the number of destructive drunk incidences you have to deal with every single night. A bouncer can be as polite as all get out, and still get punched in the face.

I'm sure there are some overly aggressive bouncers out there, who get into the industry because they've got some anger management issues and something to prove. A lot of bouncers grease doors, a lot of them drink on the job. But I'm willing to bet a lot of money that the angry, "lookin' for a fight" types are in the minority. I don't think all bouncers should all be lumped into the category of "hired goons"

Thanks for that CBC doc link, Rebecca.

it's this sort of thing that really tarnishes image of not only everyone involved, but the club scene as a whole. and everyone wonders why clubland catches flak.

easy solution:

cut the unhinged testosterone out the equation entirely by attending venues that don't have bouncers nor hooligans running amok. they appear to have a symbiotic relationship, those 2.

"I'd be curious about the people on here defending the bouncers, if their kids/brother/sister came home looking like these 3, would they feel the same?"

If they got blind drunk and acted like a neanderthal idiot, yes.

Your point about being allowed to steal booze without repurcussions because clubs overcharge for drinks is total nonsense and you know it.

total nonsense?
You mean like beating the crap out of a couple of kids who were, at worst, trying to snatch some alcohol?

You've never done anything stupid when you were drunk? The bouncers were sober.

Let's see- Guvernment/Kool Haus/Docks owner Charles Khabouth profits directly from the sale of cocaine, ecstacy, marajuana and ketamine in his clubs via approved drug dealers. He had Cherry Beach Sundays shut down last year to deflect from noise The Docks created, and his bouncers routinely beat Torontonians to within inches of their lives.

I hope the new megaclub Circa eventually bankrupts him, he is a piece of human garbage.

Woah, woah, woah. Let's try to stay on track here. We're talking about bouncers use of force.

"I'm sure if the scenario took place exactly as portrayed there would have been hundreds of witnesses who can help testify.

I'm sure I would if I saw three helpless, unwitting patrons dragged through a club, tossed on the pavement, curb stomped by ten men and then ignored by the cops. "

I was thinking the same thing. Their story doesn't make any sense. If they're talking 90% bullshit, why should I try to decipher what the 10% is?

I don't think people seem to realize how serious it is to make false accusations towards someone (especially when those accusations are filed to the police).

The bouncers are not in the right for beating 3 patrons beyond what would have been reasonable in the obvious two-sided scuffle. But the 3 people were certainly not in the right for lying to the public and the police about what happened.

In this scenario, I'd say it's even.

In general, its patrons like these guys that make bouncers like these a sad necessity.

If you don't like the bouncers, then go someplace where asshole shit disturbers tend to to go. You'll notice far fewer bouncers, and especially ones with aggressive tendencies.

Let's think carefully about the following statement:

"I'm sure if the scenario took place exactly as portrayed there would have been hundreds of witnesses who can help testify... I'm sure I would if I saw three helpless, unwitting patrons dragged through a club, tossed on the pavement, curb stomped by ten men and then ignored by the cops."

"Hundreds" of people may have seen them dragged outside, but do "hundreds" of otherwise uninvolved people typically follow such an altercation-in-progress out into the street with the intention of bearing witness to injustice? Or do the bystanders just shrug off the "bouncing" as likely being for cause, and return to their drinking/revelry/whatever?

Most people are not good samaritans under benign circumstances, let alone when a gang of beefy security guys is in the middle of "resolving" a conflict.

Nightclubs in general are seedy crime-ridden places no matter who owns them or how violent their bouncers are. They always have been and they always will be. We're not talking the church picnic here, ladies.

If you choose to patronize a club like Guvernment, then a good beating is just something you have to expect from time to time. Perhaps you even deserve one.

"If you choose to patronize a club like Guvernment, then a good beating is just something you have to expect from time to time. Perhaps you even deserve one."

-Wow.

This is not about b&e, booze, drugs, and the rest of whatever mentioned. The point is these two male "victims" were being escorted out the facility without incident until they decided to attack a doormen. I guess they were fueled on liquid courage or something. The last time I checked, that's assault, and what would a doorman do in that situation. hmmm.. lets see, 2 guys coming, both well built, one is 6'1 the other 6'5. Maybe I should read him the bill of rights, I think not. If you've not been in a situation where a big individual, who's high, drunk, and out of control, it is pretty damn hard to restraint such an individual, and the problem is they keep fighting back.

So if you don't like the guv for whatever reason, don't go,
don't go clubbing cause, all clubs got bouncers
don't generalize and stereotype all bouncers as animals, juice bags, and a**holes, not all of them are like that.

I also believe that even doormen have the rights to defend themselves with whatever force necessary when attacked. You'll never know nowadays with all the crap that is happening in the ent. district.

As to doormen, ganging up on individuals? This makes me laugh, I haven't seen a one on one sinces the early nineties, Now adays every young punk is brave if their friends are around and it is usually these punks who starts the altercations, cause they're "hood". When their friends runs away, and that one left surrounded by cops or doormen, then it is cry wolf time. "I've been ganged up on" "where's Justice" yeah, some friends you've got.

hmmm...

it seems a lot of these individuals who've had unfortunate incidents with doormen and officers at bar and clubs have something in common.

they didn't "do anything"
they did "nothing wrong"
it just "happened to us"
"we're innocent"

I want to get my point straight, no one deserves to get hurt or injure. it takes two to tangle and I truely believe that if you are out to have a good time, then have a good time, pick up a chick (or not) and go home. Girls usually don't think that guys with black eyes are "tough" or "hot".

You know what needs to happen? These bouncers need to get TASERED once they're off the job, have their jaws CURBED Ed Norton style, and then pissed on. In the middle of winter.

Seriously, how hard can it be to follow a 400 pound meat head out of a bar at 5 am once they close down, and wait until they get somewhere isolated? Specifically, the Kool Haus and Guvernment meat heads.

Worth pursuing.

I've worked in clubs in Toronto. I've seen the good and the bad in the security industry - and you can't tell which from which just by looking. Some of them are excellent people that look like thugs, some of them are totally useless and some of them will save your life.

I don't know much about the new Act & Regs that came out recently on private security but what I do hope is that it sets some sort of standard for use of force training.

It is hard to *really* know what happened the night that's described above (by so many different people) - but it looks as though the situation was poorly handled (judging only by what I can see here - I don't know if the photos were altered or if there are self-inflicted or otherwise inflicted injuries on here too). If you know what you are doing against an unarmed person the amount of force you apply should not generally result in the injuries described.

That said, I've seen insane melees on the dance floor before and broken-up a number of fights myself. You have to be quick and you have to be good at grappling. If you're dealing with someone armed you need to disarm or disable quickly, otherwise disengage (hard to do in a crowd however).

Now that they have brought in the new regulations, this could be a test case. If the doormen are determined (in a proper hearing) to have gone over the line, they should lose their license and be subject to possible civil or criminal charges.

Similarly, if it turns-out that the people who started the above have grossly exaggerated and lied in this public posting, they should be subject to tort cases (I forget which would be the appropriate law - slander?).

We all have the right to our day in court and a fair trial. One hopes that the Acts & Regs on security will also add to the protection of our rights as citizen patrons, security guards or nightclub staff.

I'm VERY glad to see someone mention the pink elephant that is the substances environment at the Guv of which the sale seems to occur directly in front of, and which can only make one wonder that it is purposely controlled and under the watchful eye of security. But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say they're blind. This is in reference to liquor and glo-sticks of course.

I agree with who ever said these bouncers should be followed to their cars after the club. In Europe and most of the US when bouncers do something like this they get beat, Its funny how tough they act inside the club, but then the tables turn when they are alone going to their cars, thats when you should get revenge. Most park close to the club and it would be easy to follow them. Even follow them back to their houses. I would.

Mara, wow...
I guess you've never been to Europe or the U.S. (Hint)in New York, most bouncers carries guns...Also I like to see how you would look the next day after following a doorman to his car and try to assault him. What they can't use in the club, they can use in the parking lot and the list of toys goes on and on and on...

Watch out, Mara could be following you guys to your car next...

That picture brought me back to that night. My boyfriend is the one on the bottom that got messed up by retarded security guards. Hopefully the law will come into play and these idiots get what they deserve.

There are three silly recurring arguments in the above postings.

First, the argument that "if you don't want to risk beat-downs at clubs, then don't go". Huh? That's about as sophisticated an argument as "if you don't want to risk rape, wear frumpy clothes".

When crimes occur -- such as unlawful beat-downs -- the appropriate response is to put legal pressure on the culprits -- not blame the victims.

Next is the absurd argument that "if you provoke, you deserve what you get." Huh? This is about as sophisticated as saying that if you disrespect a dude and he shoots you in the knee-cap, you got what you deserve.

Even where violence is taken in cases of "real" self-defence (like in response to a weapon attack), the reaction has to be proportional to the threat. It's hard to understand the threat that would have warranted this type of 'self-defence' toward a petite girl, unless maybe she was openly wielding a gun.

Third is the argument that "there must be something more to this story" or else there would be a bigger public outcry. Well, there MIGHT have been more of an outcry if people like you weren't so quick to discount the need. Yet you do dismiss the need, then fail to consider your role in facilitating the very lack of outcry you claim to need. But look at how circular this argument is -- even if facts ARE egregious enough for an outcry, you say there must be 'more to the story' -- and therefore it isn't worth giving rise to an outcry.

In short, not only is there therefore never a scenario that could warrant an outcry in your mind (for if facts aren't egregious then clearly no outcry is required, and if they are egregious then 'there must be something more to it'), but the more people who adopt this argument, the harder it is to ever get a critical mass for an outcry that you claim to need. Therefore, it's a self-fulfilling point.

Think before you speak, and there won't be so much disagreement.

Cheers.

I am a bouncer and I feel people responding to all this have things a little mixed up. Yes, there are asshole bouncers and yes there are nicer ones. We all deal with a lot of excited, drunk, high, or totally messed up people, as well as a few sober people. The fact of the matter is, the supposed victims here are not unlike many people that I have dealt with in my years doing security.

I have been punched in the face for kicking someone out. I have been punched in the face for not letting someone in for free. I have been bitten for kicking someone out. I've had my face scratched by a man. I've been kicked in the back repeatedly for trying to defend a patron who was getting his ass kicked. I have had my knee blasted full force into a barricade with the weight of a 250lb gorilla plus my own weight because he was being ejected and wanted to hurt me. Finally I hurt my neck severely and remained in pain for 6 weeks because I was trying to 'restrain' a large patron instead of stomping his face when me and another bouncer got jumped by him and his four friends.

After learning to deal with this type of element, when a patron attacked me because we were kicking him and his friends out, I hit him back. When this patron came at me and struck me in the side of the head I was a little scared, because even though we outnumbered him and his friends, he was about 4 inches taller than me and looked like he could ruin my $10,000 mouth (3 years of adult braces) if he connected on his next punch. I'm not a big guy (6'1", under 200lbs), but when I hit this patron back I ripped his eye open with one punch. Turns out his eye had already been softened up by a recent rugby match injury. He continued to tussle with me until another security staff grabbed him and helped me pull him to the ground.

We restrained the patron on the ground for a minute which was difficult because this guy was so big and strong and driven by booze which, low and behold, he HAD also stolen from our club. The head doorman told us to let him up, so I thought it was all done, but he got up and went and attacked the doormen who had just let his friend up off the ground.

I went back to the guy to try and restrain him again and when I grabbed him away from the other security staff, I started choking him in a head-lock until the situation was truly under control.

During the second time that I was taking the big patron down, I saw his girlfriend attack our staff for like the fifth time, but this time when she ran at them with her claws out one of our guys straight-armed her and she fell back cracking her head on the curb of the sidewalk. She probably suffered some broken bones too cuz it looked bad how she hit the curb. That kind of fall could have easily broken an eardrum and a clavicle. But hey I'm not talking about the same incident as Barry and his drunken band of massive Rugby friends who like to get drunk every weekend and cause shit.

Oh, and by the way, even though I just defended myself in this incident, after getting hurt repeatedly because I didn't want to hit people, eventually I got fired from that job. The reason? Too many people blamed the 'goon' doormen for beating these people up, even though it was entirely their fault. Finallyl, the club owner wrongfully assumed that we were at fault, and since I was the senior guy on scene when the incident started, I was eventually the guy who took the fall for the whole incident.

Of course, I get fired right after my wife gives birth to our first child. Do you clowns who think the Guvernment bouncers are completely at fault for this incident really think that there's only the "victim's" side to this story? Not all bouncers are neandrathals like you think they are. I probably have 2 more university degrees than half of you people writing on this site and I can see that there is more to this than you close-minded morons see. Maybe the bouncers went a little hard on these people at Guvernment, or maybe they just defended themselves against dangerous, theiving and aggressive patrons who think that a club is the best place to try hit people like they do on the rugby field!

WHO NEEDS TO GO TO EMXICO TO GET BEETEN UP WHEN IT HAPPENS RIGHT HERE I OUR CLEAN CITY....SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD

Stupid cj, whoever faults that is THE IDIOT BOUNCERS shouldn't have beaten their own customer like that!! put yourself in their shoes asshole! easy for you to say coz it didnt happen to you or to one of your family member.

Looking for contact with Magdalena Olszanowski, please.
Andrew Olszanowski
Australia

wow to the beatings,
if i was in that situation ..
i would round up a few friends
and wait for these guys 1 by 1
and give them a nice beating as they leave home that night
revenge is a bitch

I used to work for that company. And I can assure ANYONE that this sort of thing is common. The doormen are aggressive and are never reprimanded for any use of force they use -whether against women or men. Even female staff within the company itself have repeatedly been assaulted and it has always been dismissed by the owner. ***You don't have to give the bouncers of the INK Group (Guvernment, Ultra, This Is London, etc.) ANY reason to attack. Many of them have serious anger management issues. My condolences go out to these people. You can attempt to steal a $2300.00 designer dress at Prada and no one will jump you and beat you down. You can attempt to steal a $ 10,000.00 photocopier from any professional office in the free world and no one will jump on you and shatter your bones. However, at the Ink Group venues, a wrong look can get you put in the hospital.
It's a sad reality.

I worked at Guvernment for six months as security while travelling, five years ago. I'm 38. I've been sober for 8 years. I have degrees in psychology and computer science and am currently studying a masters in business. I've been working as a software engineer for 20 years and have travelled the world. Now I architect systems for mining. I come from Johannesburg South Africa. My father was a mathematician, my mother was a concert pianist. I served a year of forced military service under the Apartheid government, sitting under a sand dune for eight months of that time.

In my six months working at The Guvernment, I never hit a patron, never greased a door, allthough I was offered. The guy who offered got fired shortly thereafter. When we were involved in a fracas, we were expected to write a report on it at the end of shift, and pass this report on to police.

The only real danger I saw in those six months happened in Charlies Bar, where I used to stand by the toilets. African men collected on one side of Charlies and Carribean men on the other. There was a woman in the middle stirring the shit. I didn't call anyone, mediating between both factions until one by one, everyone went home. I don't believe anyone outside of that room was aware. Like an African night.

Truly dangerous people? In the six months I worked there I remember seeing four. I remember each one clear as day. I remember also that a bouncer was shot and killed at a door before I started working there.

In Johannesburg, I've been shot at twice by complete strangers, caught in a traffic jam in the middle of a shoot-out between cops and hijackers on my way to a study group meeting, seen two people shot, one right in front of me at a family fun day, seen more beatings and stabbings, sucked more teargas, than I care to remember. I've seen more freaky violent shit than you can see in a lifetime of Hollywood movies, up close, personal, in heat, blood, dust, concrete, tar, glass, sunlight and darkness. And I'm not a hard man here by any means.

I grew up in clubs while the country was in chaos. When I was fifteen, I saw this: a patron would leave, come back and buy everyone drinks, leave, come back and buy everyone drinks. Suspicious bouncers followed him the next time he left, saw him stab and mug a passerby, and come back and buy everyone drinks. When we went to the club the next night and heard the story, they had had him in the basement after torturing him for 24 hours with water and salt. When the cops came to get him, they smashed both his collar bones with a pick axe handle, then smashed both his feet from above with the end of the pick axe handle. They left him in the veld by the mine dumps.

My point is - in South Africa, like I'm sure happens in many parts of the world, bouncer organisations have full-on wars with each other. People get tortured, beat, shot and killed. Everyones been smacked in a club. It's part of growing up here. It's a big world - there are people at Guvernment from everywhere. Relax, someone got a few smacks, don't stereotype people. Everyone has thier own story. From the pictures, those people didn't get badly fucked up - some scrapes - the guys eye is still open. Not much swelling. The girl suffered some damage. I don't agree with that, but that said, I remember that woman could cause more serious shit than any man could at Guvernment.

Don't stereotype bouncers. I worked with a bouncer at Guvernment who looked like a total heavy, but was studying opera singing. People mix it up, people make shit, it's human nature. I wouldn't work as a bouncer in South Africa if you paid me in gold. In Canada, it was a decent job, 12 dollars an hour, better than the 8 dollars an hour I made at the misery saga cardboard factory (funny thing about the factory - I was the only white face there).

The person I remember most strongly from six months at Guvernment? The 60 year old Carribean grandmother who used to clean the toilets next to where I stood. Ever notice her?

The lesson I learnt at Guvernment came from this vision: with the saturday night crowd, everyone came in with thier own faces on. At 10, as regular as clockwork, everybody put on the same identical face. At six in the morning, when the lights came on, they'd put thier own faces back on, rubbing at thier cheeks and wondering where they were. In the middle of the dance floor, after staring at it for weeks on end, I saw a large rock. I saw the kids each walk up to the rock and splash a cup of thier lifeblood onto the rock, their lifeblood being the 8 hours of their lives where they didn't wear thier own faces. The rock turns the lifeblood into money - What a bargain!

The other, more meaningfull lesson I learnt, was this: the friday night crowd wore thier own faces, all night long. They paid cash direct, and they looked you in the eye while they did it.

My point? You wanna stereotype me, come to South Africa like I went to Canada, look me in the eye like a Rexdale crowd on DJ Scratch night, and call me meat heat to my face. My real point? Open your half-swollen eyes clublubbers, and shrug it off - the sun's coming up and it's another beautifull day in Africa.

I used to work for this company and can assure you that this happens all the time. The 'security' staff is extremely aggressive and it literally takes nothing to send them into a violent frenzie. They all love to sit around after and laugh about (even re-inact) these incidences with the owner. It's all considered 'good ol' boy fun' by management. The police will never do anything to help any patrons because they are paid very very well by the company to be there (upwards of $ 70.00 per hour for each pay-duty officer) so they will never rock the boat of great pay to sit around and watch pretty girls walking in.

Anger-management problems are a constant issue with these doormen -that's just a FACT.

this is madness, how any one can get away with this kind of assault, not even your partner in life can leave a woman like this and get off with it. How would you feel if it was some one from your family. it is disgusting and uncalled for. Really!

I've been to Kool Haus dozens of times, since I was 15 myself. I'd say for concerts, you shouldn't worry too much. It's the club (and former 'rave') nights that get out of control.

However - safety wise - Kool Haus is located down by the water and I'd recommend getting your kid a ride to/from the parking lot at the place... they can walk in from the main road but it's a real mess to take TTC and you end up walking a ways in the dark.

I was a bouncer for 2 years before moving to Japan. I put my ass under fire every weekend to make the coin to get here. Some people like to put up a fight, when they are being removed from a club. I warn every single person before they try to proceed with an altercation. I am trained in Shin Kyokushin Karate, Judo, Taikyoken; if I really wanted to beat up on somebody I do it at tournaments at least I get a trophy at the end of the competition. In a club fight you have your fellow bouncers who are your brothers your family. We protect each other; now I know in this industry some bouncer tend to be hot headed and have power issues. However, in every barrel there will always be a few bad apples. I really do not even like to fight, I am married and used to do it to pick up some extra coin, listen to some tunes, and see young people enjoy life like we did back in the day. Some of these youngblood do not know, the club scene used to be way worse. I was there the night in October 2005 when Joker was shot up. I was trying to safely get people out of the club not even thinking of the safety of my own life. So please all of you who like to bouncer bash so to speak, think of us good bouncers that prevent you all from getting hurt when a brawl breaks out. As a result of the crazier side of life in nightlife I am CPR and AED certified to better protect people when they are having fun. Our job is not easy, I tell you what for those of you who question our profession; join the black-clothed brotherhood of the nightlife when you first enter it is scary but after a few years it all becomes clear.