You Didn't Get the Message Because We Didn't Have $150,000
Facebook is sorta awesome. It's a great place to connect with people and for blogTO it's been a good platform for not only keeping in touch with our readers, but also for our readers to easily get in touch with us in a public manner; even if we don't cover an event you guys inform us of, our group members still get the option of checking out the details on their own if you posted it on the wall or in a thread.
Facebook has recently changed the rules for groups, though. As a result we haven't been able to send our awesome readership messages about events, contests and promotions happening on blogTO through the increasingly popular platform. If we wanted to send you guys messages about such happenings, it would cost us a minimum of $150,000. We didn't win the lottery last week, so that ain't gonna happen.
More details as well as how this has affected us as well as the Toronto After Dark Film Festival are after the jump.
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The original group size message limit for the Facecrack platform was 1,000 users. That's a pretty respectable size. A few weeks ago Facecrack changed the rules without telling any group admins in a public manner. The rule change was that groups admins could only send mass messages if the membership was under 500 users. Anything above 500, and groups would be required to fork over $50,000 a month (three month minimum commitment) for a sponsored account for privileges like sending out notifications and messages directly to the user base.
One-hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
We tried to send out some news about a contest a few weeks ago through the blogTO Facecrack group and everything looked OK. The message went into the sent items bin and no message or notification was given that the message didn't reach a single person in the group. When our glorificus dungeon master, Tim Shore, tried to contact Facecrack about the apparent issues, he received the following reply:
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Hi Tim,
We are aware of the problem that you described and hope to resolve it as soon as possible. Sorry for any inconvenience. Let me know if you have any further questions.
Thanks for contacting Facebook,
Jenna
Customer Support Representative
Facebook
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I'm not about to scream bloody murder here, but such a response seems odd at best. Had the Facecrack uppers bothered to tell their CSR teams about the change in policy? Or mayhaps they were testing the waters to see just how many people would be affected by the changes to the system. We dunno, but what is fucking stupid is the cost for a sponsored account. In order for blogTO to send messages directly to our 770+ members, we'd have to mortgage our homes to do so.
Adam Lopez and Chris Emery of the Toronto After Dark Film Festival have experienced these issues as well. They feel pretty gypped about it, saying "We tried so hard to encourage our film festival's fans to join our groups, and keep them under the 1,000 member STATED limit for sending facebook messages, and guess what? Sneaky facebook screwed us - and every other facebook group - over in secret this past month."
With the influx of advertising on Facebook home pages, it's understandable that everyone's gotta make a living and nothing is free in life. For groups like blogTO, Toronto After Dark and others a nominal fee for certain features is understandable. What the hey, it's helping us further our own agendas, no reason Facecrack should just give it away. But the price being asked ventures into the realm of the absurd. Couple this with the fact that, if you're like most people, keeping track of your Facecrack groups is a chore and you instead check your updates that fly into your inbox rather than check up on the latest wall postings and threads. The way the site is designed, it's just something of an inconvenience any other way.
Mass messages of big news, events, and contests, however, are usually well received by users that voluntarily sign up for it.
This is somewhat tragic, especially for a city such as Toronto with our obscenely high Facecrack adoption rate. The little guys with big followings who are no doubt somewhat responsible for the growth of the social networking behemoth are being given the shaft because their popularity has reached the level known as moderate. In the meantime, you can get your After Dark Film Fest news by signing up for their newsletter (CLICK ME CLICK ME!) as joining their Facecrack group in the hopes of being kept in the loop is now a lost cause. Their last words on the matter? "We'll still keep updating Toronto After Dark Film Festival's pages on [Facebook], but we know almost nobody will be reading the updates, because almost nobody checks their groups after they've joined them. Unless you message them. Which thanks to our popularity, we can't anymore."
For blogTO? We dunno yet. We're exploring our options on how to best keep you guys in the know when not actually on our site. If anyone has any suggestions on how you would feel best served, let us know in the comments section (or you could let us know by writing on our group's wall). I've put forth the idea of using carrier pigeons, but the chief doesn't think it's a good idea. No one likes pigeon poop, it seems.
Comments (32)
Hey Ryan,
Thanks for covering my story with Toronto After Dark, and I guess sadly it's yours now too with blogTo. When it worked it was awesome, and so much better than sending e-mails to our fans, as facebook messaging is pretty much spam free, people actually read it and look forward to it. You can also leave any group that messages you with a single click if it's not to your liking. As for alternatives? I'm not sure, other than an e-newsletter. But for something live and dynamic like blogTo that just seems like going backwards! Hopefully facecrack will figure it out,
All the best,
- Adam
Spacing experienced the 1,000 member limit. We found out about 2 months ago when we tried to send a mass message. I emailed facebook and was told something similar to what Tim received.
The thing is, people voluntarily sign-up for groups so it shouldn't be considered SPAM (which is how the phrased it to us). As mentioned above, they are punishing people who have become popular because Facebook users have made them popular.
I understand there might be technical considerations that we're unaware of (server overload possibly) but they have done a poor job of communicating with the admins of groups to let them know the changes.
The fees proposed are ridiculous (free for 500 members in a group, but thousands of dollars for 502 members?!?!?!).
Facebook is the most powerful media tool on the net. Its a shame if there are making it harder for those of us who use it effectively.
If we can't afford the $150,000 sponsor fee, what makes you think we can afford to give away an actual PORSCHE? No way, the car we had lined up was a Taiwanese knockoff.
And just for that you're banned from the contest, Hamish.
What I find most annoying/disturbing is that FB didn't let group admins know that this major functionality would be lost. Furthermore, 500 (or even 1000) isn't very large a group. It's poor decisions like these that will make FB crash in a hurry.
I wonder how many silly groups like 'my group is going to pass 100,000 people!!!!' send out mass messages to their silly friends to join for no good reason.
perhaps they're trying to discourage that kind of thing. obviously they need to think of something better, if that's the case.
That's such a bizarrely enormous amount. Why would Facebook need that much money to send maybe twice as many messages?
Gloria, I'm reminded of a Dilbert comic where dogbert proposes that they institute a rebate program , charging $1,000,019 for a product and offer a $1,000,000 mail-in rebate, meant to target the lazy rich who don't bother mailing the rebate in.
Perhaps this is to score big cash from the like of the Sonys and Banks of the world who can afford to send out the mass messaging for targeted advertising..?
I don't mean to be the PC police but "gypped" is as derrogatory a term as saying "I got Jewed." I realize that the word is part of many people's vocabulary out of ignorance so I'm not throwing around accusations of anything but now that its been pointed out, I hope you'll ensure that the approprite edit is made to this article.
They should really have a carve out for non-profit groups, educational and charity etc.
Let proctor and gamble pay 150k if they want to spam members in the we love frosty-o's fb group.
they should let the real (an non-commercial) communities that keep facebook alive run groups at no charge.
Less troublesome alternatives to "gypped" include "ripped (off)," "cheated," "scammed," and "stiffed."
This just happened to my group and I had no idea why! Thanks for the info. I had an email into FB, but they haven't gotten back to me yet.
Soo... while I agree that Facebook should have told you about the changed limit, and that the amount they're asking for is fairly high, I'm pretty sure you can easily find a way around it.
How about.. making a blog post whenever you have something to tell people?
Oh right.. you think that people who are into your blog enough to join the Facebook group aren't into your blog enough to read it on a regular basis. K scratch that.
Ok then.. there's this new thing called "Rich Site Summary" or "Real Simple Syndication".. aka RSS. Oh right.. you have that. (although not the standard icon, so not as noticeable)
So.. what are you saying here? You're concerned that people who don't actually care about your blog won't get news about your blog? Oh well then, I guess I can understand why you're so upset.
The mass mailing feature on FB offered opportunities that web posts and rss feeds don't - by landing in the email inboxes of several hundred subscribers in one mouse click. People check their email many times each day, but may visit a web page or check their rss far less often. Seems pretty simple to me, Alison. I'm not sure why expressing our frustration with losing this valued feature is making you all crabby.
Absolutely Jerrold. Facebook Group Messaging worked like gangbusters for Toronto After Dark Film Festival. I tested sending e-mails out to our newsletter list (over 2,000 subscribers at the time) vs. sending a facebook message to 300 members of our group. Guess what? We had much better response from facebook messaging than the larger e-mailing. People join groups they are interested in on facebook, and they also love to read their facebook mail. Combine the two and you have the best way of keeping in touch with your readers/supporters/members of your indie/arts/community/cultural group/event/blog I have ever seen. The promise of keeping in touch was amazing, but then we all got screwed over when they pulled the rug out from under us. That's why we are all so peed - both at blogTo and Toronto After Dark. I keep seeing groups now going over 500, 600 or 1,000, like Magic Pony, or closer to my fest, the Zombie Walk, and my heart sinks. They did such a good job of attracting followers on Facebook, but now they've become victimized - never to be able to communicate with their members again. None of us should be paying the corporate rate of $150,000 - maybe a token rate, like $100 a year, I wouldn't have a problem with, because it genuinely is better than e-mail. But there is nothing there for us in place right now. Cheesed off,
- Adam
Crabby nothing. I agreed that the fee is high and the lack of notice unfair. All I'm saying is that you don't have to make such a huge deal about it. Maybe you're the one who's being all crabby.
Hey Ryan
I know all about the price tag, as I'm getting a couple clients on Facebook for work. $150,000 may seem high, but what you get for it is actually pretty worth while. It's more then what most people can afford.
When you look at what Apple, BMW, Virgin and Red Bull has done with Sponsored groups starting at $150,000 they are pretty sweet. Thanks for the post Ryan, I'll need to keep this in mind when talking with clients.
Well said Duane.. my view comes from the ad agency side too. I guess my point would have gone across better if I had put it into perspective the way you did!
I've had experience with "client X" thinking the internet was a way to get free advertising. Basically saying the Cokes and Apples of the world were stupid for paying for these packages, because why couldn't they just go above Facebook and set up their own promotional group for free?
Sucks for things like BlogTO and the After Dark Film Festival, yes, but I can totally understand why they did it.
It may make sense from their administrative office perspective when they run the numbers, but as has been said already this sort of behaviour is just them whacking themselves in the knees with hammers for money and without being a useful site to your users first and foremost you can't possibly expect to be a revenue-generating site even if you have every corporation on the planet on your side.
The less there is on Facebook for me, the less I go on, the less I see any of the sponsored crap... at this point it seems like they've lost track of the original site purpose in a lot of ways and are hoping stupid "food fight" applications will keep their traffic addicted.
It doesn't matter that everyone uses Facebook now, because every single person who uses Facebook made a decision based on its features (and its features relative to other sites) to sign up and start using it, and if Facebook thinks that being Facebook.com is going to save them no matter how useless the site gets, they must be new to the internet.
Everyone used to use Geocities too, the net hordes can leave in swarms just as easily as they can arrive in them.
Actually, I find it pretty annoying getting loads of Facebook messages every day from various groups I've joined. I'd rather get an event invitation directly - that makes SO much more sense to me. Whether or not that's possible with the way groups are set up, I don't really know. But it's how I'd prefer to be notified of anything time-sensitive.
This is why having your own (real) e-mail list is essential for anybody who wants to announce anything. Damn ye, Facebook!
Thanks for the info. This has happened to my group as well. The biggest reason I'm annoyed is that it is impossible to find that limit stated anywhere. I mean really, how hard is that to post in a FAQ page? Or GIVE SOME FREAKING INDICATION it didn't actually send after you hit submit? Also, by ignoring the issue, they are leaving money on the table. They could be charging a per message fee. Guess they don't want our money.
Thanks! Similarly I am in a local band in Essex England and I have started an event to promote our debut single release. It became very popular with facebook users and have over 800 confirmed guests (sales) however, inviting people, who I know and are friends resulted in my accoutn being diabled, now all of the hard work in getting the group/event up and running to promote the single has been deleted by the 'wonderful' people of facebook and now potentially wrecked the sales from the single. If they ahd told me their limits in advance then maybe I would have knon only to tell some of my friends at a time about it.
It is in fact an unsocial network! Only for unpopular people, maybe the kind of unpopular people that built facebook in the first places.
Thank you to the boys in blue x
I finally got a personal response from Facebook today. They are denying the group limit change:
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[dave@cityidol.to]:
Please don't send me the form letter response to questions about group messaging.
What is going on? Has the limit been lowered from 1000? People are feeling really let down. You're going to start losing people fast. ; (
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On 16-Oct, Sebby from Facebook wrote:
Hi Dave,
We are aware of the problem that you described and hope to resolve it as soon as possible. Sorry for any inconvenience. Let me know if you have any further questions.
Thanks for contacting Facebook,
Sebby
Customer Support Representative
Facebook
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[dave@cityidol.to]:
Hi,
I asked you in my letter specifically not to "send me the form letter response". Then, after three days, you sent me the form letter response.
My question was: "Has the limit been lowered from 1000?". It's not a 'problem'. It's a question.
~ dave meslin
FaceBook user
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Hi Dave,
The limit has not been lowered from 1000. We are aware of the problem with groups that you have described and are working to resolve this problem. We apologize for the inconvenience. Let me know if you have more questions.
Thanks for contacting Facebook,
Sebby
Customer Support Representative
Facebook
Hey Dave.
As of about a week ago, it looks like Facebook has made changes to the group messaging limits. BlogTO has been able to send notes to group members.
Possibly because of the bit of outrage? I dunno, but all looks better now. Not working for you?
Yay BlogTO & Toronto After Dark - we did it! (exagerration I know, but hey any search on facebook messaging limit and outrage and this thread came up high on google, so I am sure someone took note.
- Adam
Can anybody add or remove group admins & officers to a group with +4000 members?
Our group wont list any of our members & find nothing when i search for members
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