American Immigrants Decide to Move Up North

Love> Lots of people whose love is illegal down south are moving up here too.

My mom moved to Canada because here the National Guard doesn't tend to kill protesters over anti-war demos (though Canadian police do seem to have an attraction to dogs, pepper sray and rubber bullets.)

Came for school, but once graduated I realized I wasn't done with Toronto yet.  I come from a small town, so not only was Toronto a big city adventure, it wasn't regular old Boston where many of my school mates ended up.  I find when I visit home and people ask where I live now, saying Toronto gets a much more interested reaction than NYC, Boston, etc. Anyway, I've been here 5 years and still haven't seen everything, which is kind of great because I can still look forward to exploring new neighborhoods.  Yipes, I sound like a brochure.

I'm surrounded by Americans up here -- who -- do things. We call them the 2nd wave of American Refugees. The first being the draft dodgers -- who themselves founded a whole bunch of Toronto institutions.

My partner and I moved to Toronto from New York City last June. He's an attorney. I'm a nurse. We'd just become fed up once and for all with the politics, the ignorance, the priorities out of wack that were running rampant in most of the US. We'd actually applied almost 2 years before it but didn't get out permanent resident visa until November 2005.

 Yeah, we can get married here but that isn't even a priority. The people in Canada, their values, the political discourse, all mesh well with us. And Toronto, well, what's not to love. In spite of what residents say, it's relatively clean compared to NYC, the subways run ridiculously on-time and are spotless (again, compared to NYC), and the multiculturalism here is second to none. Last but not least, there's that little health care thing. I could go on about what we love about Canada but I'll just bore everyone.

I wish I was one of them, and hope to be someday (when the savings hits 10K)  I'm just done with Bush's Bible thumping, Redneck America. It's our unthinking, knee-jerk, religious nut job, NASCAR, celebrity worshipping culture I can't stand anymore.  When the news is number of casualties in the war and the next is a helicopter over Paris Hilton, it's time to leave. Trimspa Baby!

George Bush=World's worse terrorist threat.

I don't want to take any jobs from Canadians, I vist there often and I just love your' country and especially TO.  I heave a sigh of relief when I see your' flag on the way up, and heave a sigh of shame when I see the US flag on the way down.

I thought the Loyalists were the first wave, not the draftees.

"there are a multitude of parks and green areas within an hour's drive from Toronto that provide an escape when needed."

Hmm, that doesn't make things much better for those of us in the city, does it?

Good point Adam.  I'm just reiterating what Jay told me, but I guess he's only been here for three months and he hasn't quite realized that there's a lot of great green space here in the city that's accessible by TTC as well.

Thanks for all of you who shared some of your stories of moving up here, it's always fascinating to me to learn why some people decide to move.   (And especially thanks to Joombah and Matt who reminded me of another reason people move here - our tolerance - that I had completely ommitted.)

Mark> Yes, of course. And some others in between. We mean "recent history" as in the parents of some of our friends.

Steve> You do know Canada has its share of exactly that culture, perhaps tempered a little by free healthcare. 

Well I'm actually a Canadian who moved to the United States, Minnesota to be exact, and asked myself, what the hell am I doing? I moved back to Ontario as soon as possible to start my college education.

My boyfriend however is an American citizen whose family moved here in the mid 1980's. Their reasons are actually a little more on the strange side however, as they moved here to follow their hippy, new age-y religious leader.

Basically, bottom line, I just think Canada is a better country and Canadians are just better people. It's like Michael Moore said, America is all "Me, Me, Me" and I think Canada is more of a "We".  And I just can't stop laughing when I hear Americans go on about how this country is number one,  a democracy, or it's freedoms and pray this, pray that and god bless this and that, and then "Save Paris" or "Save Lindsay"...and all that other crap. America is just a stupid, stupid country.

America is nothing to me anymore. Canada means hope.

I'm a Canadian who moved to New York City in 2000 (though I did go to university in the US in the 90s as well).  It's nice to hear the flow is becoming a little more two-way.   I do know a couple American friends who moved to Toronto for work but both later returned to the US for better-paying high-level jobs.  They also had issues with the weather, which sounds wimpy but can be a legitimate issue for those who grew up in warmer climes.   The recent rise in the Canadian dollar will do more for immigration than politics ever did, since it allows companies and universities to compete better with their US bretheren and ultimately pay is a major, major factor.   However, I am concerned over Toronto's future, since the city is so poorly funded compared to resurgent US cities like New York, Chicago and Boston.   I grew up in the city in the 1980s and the decline in quality-of-life and infrastructure is very painful to watch from afar.    Without the natural geography of Calgary or Vancouver or the culture of Montreal only sheer size (equals jobs) and quality of life will keep Toronto competitive for immigrant workers instead of being just a bigger Cleveland or Minneapolis.   If you can no longer even get Americans to visit as tourists, what will get them to stay?
 

There's nothing simple about why I moved to Toronto from Boston, though the category I fit most neatly into is "Love."

I am a little tired of the pervasive America-bashing.  I hate the current administration as much as anyone - probably more than most.  But I don't want to hear how Americans are stupid, lazy, fat, etc - "oh, but we're not talking about you."

Yeah, you are.  I was born in the great State of Maine to American-born parents.

I like Canada a lot.  It's a relief to be among people who assume I am left-thinking and feel free to talk about social issues in public.  Milk comes in bags.   I don't have to worry that if I leave my job and get sick or hurt, I'll go bankrupt.  The government isn't as bad.  There's no death penalty.  But I miss my home, and to me home isn't the administration, it's my mom and the ocean and Harvard Square and Fenway Park.

 I came here because this is my husband's home, and sometimes I think it is mine, but it's just not that easy. 

yup, that's me! i moved here for the rave scene, it is better than nyc's by a factor of 5,000.

also i think you should have included "law enforcement". there's none here, which is amazing. 

Been here now 13 months and really like it.  It was the politics, economy and mild  sense of adventure.

 It is not as easy of a transition as you think.  Unless you have a job lined up it'd be good to have some cash to burn for more than a few months.  I worked quite a few odd jobs before finally getting something in my field.

People are generally helpful and kind.  They have this love/hate thing with Americans tho so be prepared.  They point out your accent like it is a bit of an nasty embarresment for them.

The things I like are too numerous to list here so it's all good.

I immigrated here (landed) from the US about a year ago exactly. I came here because my values are more in line with Canadian values. It was not necessarily political, but the Bush reelection made my wife (Canadian) and I think "why are we in the States!?"

Wendy, I too get tired of the America bashing.  While I definitely do consider Toronto my home and I am proud to be Canadian, I still feel that I got a lot from my time (childhood, university) in the USA.  I still hold a US Passport, so when people needlessly bash the States around me, I'm quick to remind them that I too, am an American in some part.  And while I may not agree with everything the administration or other people in the country do, I still do feel that the USA has a lot of good things going for it that people up here tend to forget.

Kevin, just a quick question: what do you mean by there's no law enforcement here?  I mean, the police generally do a good job of staying out of my life (except when they're pulling me over for being a colored male driving a Honda Civic in Rexdale at night), but is the distinction between Toronto's law enforcment and NYC's that noticeable?

Those are some good tips Xpat: it's not that easy settling in any new country and getting all the little things you take for granted (getting a bank account, figuring out the transit system) all sorted quickly.

I've lived here for three years now, moving from DC by way of Pittsburgh (raised) and Philadelphia (educated). I moved for love. We chose Toronto for a variety of reasons: halfway between my family in Pittsburgh and my fiancee's in Montreal, she's pursuing a PhD at York, and I had enough contacts to easily land a job as an engineer here. I'm applying for permanent residency now, and I think the one thing that sums up my feelings about Toronto and Canada is that if something were to happen to her or our relationship, there's a good chance I would choose to stay here anyway.

That said, I'm disgusted with the idea of Americans moving here as some limp "protest" against the Bush administration. I don't understand how you can claim to be so repulsed by the actions of our goverment that you think the best course of action is to flee. People who are truly motivated and committed to making the States a better place do not leave in protest; they stay at home and work to make things better. This isn't the 60s. There's no draft, you're not running from a very real prospect of called up and sent off to die in a war. What you are doing, rather, is potentially depriving the States of some of its brightest minds and resources that could, just maybe, start to make things better. In fact, after Bush was re-elected in 2004, I thought about moving home and seeing what I could do to minimize the damage. Work and personal life got the best of me, but I still wonder what I could have done.

At the very least, I hope you're still voting at home.

Yea, like leaving the Titanic was a "limp" protest against the veggie platter.

Completely disagree with your statement, Tom. America doesn't want the brightest, unless they live in China or Dubai. America is anti-intellectual, anti-thinker. Gives us Larry the Cable Guy and Git `er Done (as long as gitten `er done means outsourcing it).  We voted and he still got in. Your' statement would mean more if the playing feild were more level, but it isn't...these people play by their own set of rules. As far as what you could've done by moving back, aside from losing your' health care, very little.

It's fine if you still have faith in this country. me, I have none left, what-so-ever. I have completey given up on this failed experiment and I have no allusion that I live in a democratic country  that is free or brave. It is none of the above. The biggest threat to peace and progress in the world is the US. I don't fear terrorists in a desert on the other side of the world, I fear the man with a $8,000 suit and a paper-shredder on Wall Street.

Hey! I'm from Maine too. I have to say I haven't met anyone else from Maine in these parts, despite it being essentially embedded in Canada.

One thing I get all the time is: Is it warmer down there in Maine?

 And I say: Look at a map, Maine is north of Toronto!

That's true Annie!  I don't think many people realize that Canada juts out pretty south in some places, and there's quite a few major American cities north of Toronto.

What's with all the America bashing? I moved from Toronto to England to Seattle, WA, where I have now been for 10 years. I still visit Toronto every year and love every minute of it. My experience from moving to a different country is that some things will be better where you are going and some things are better where you left. In Seattle, the whole city seems to be a park surrounded by mountains and ocean. Taxes are low and the people are terrific. Also, the healthcare issue is not as cut and dried as some would have you believe. I had a operation here last year and it was the best care I have received ever, anywhere. ( and no, it didn't cost thousands ) Quite often my friends will come down from Vancouver to seek medical assistance here rather than wait around for months for a procedure in Canada.

Terry, this post was definitely not meant to be an America-bashing post: after all, I'm a dual citizen and proud to call BOTH country my homes.  It is clear that each country offers different appeals to different people, and this post was just asking what makes some people move up here instead of all the stories we hear of people going down south.

The national borders of Canada and the US do not define much reality.  If you want to define it politically, we'd take Alberta and the 'fly-over-states' and cast them out.  Language would create other borders.  Geography others.  Economics... none?

I'm just glad we have Quebec, even though my crappy French teachers made me think French was boring when I was still young enough to learn it easily.  In the past few decades they've led the 'Rest of Canada' on social policy: acceptance of sexualities, day-care, etc.  Without them, we'd be America, or Alberta.

You make a good point Aidan, I think the great things about Quebec are often overlooked.